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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Evelyn on September 22, 2012, 02:26:30 am
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Hi - I'm a newbie, and am throwing myself upon your collective mercy :) in hope of an answer to this question:
I recently bought a (very) used walnut-veneer bedframe, and was starting to clean it up when I noticed a partial label(!). It's a little tough to decipher, but it seems to be from the LC & WL Cron Company in Piqua, Ohio. In fact, it seems very similar to one in the thread that brought me to this forum http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=6598.0 (http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=6598.0) (except I think that bed's veneer is in much better shape than mine :) ).
But now I'm a little afraid to do the cleaning & repairs that the bed needs, for fear of destroying some of its antique value. Some of the veneer is peeling like birchbark, and I'd planned to remove it and just sand & finish the less-glamourous-but-still-solid wood underneath; but now I'm worried that I would be committing some sort of grave historic disservice.
(FWIW, D&b antiques estimated the bed in the linked thread above to worth about $250. The dealer I bought mine from had originally priced it at $275, later knocked it down to $225, and then - because they're about to move the entire business to a new warehouse - gave it to me for the "take my bed frame, please" price of $100. I bought it mainly to hold my mattress & box springs up off the floor, and because the wood is beautiful, rather than for any antique value.)
Maybe I'm worried for nothing - after all, I'd be hard put to find a similar bed frame brand-new for $250. But it'd sure be nice to have someone who knows more about antiques than I do (i.e., almost anyone on this forum) say so. :)
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But now I'm a little afraid to do the cleaning & repairs that the bed needs,
Procede with them.
A coating of Old English "Dark" Furniture Polish will do wonders for it.
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I swear by this stuff...it also comes in medium wood and light...and it feeds the wood...there is another similar product..called Topps scratch cover....
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Tableau-Scratch-Cover-Dark-Wood/dp/B0041WDBB8/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1348309873&sr=8-6
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Probably not truly an antique, but an early 20th century sleigh bed. It looks to be quite handsome under the dirt. ;D
Cogar and Wull are right about the treatment. It will do wonders. In addition, you can get a "furniture syringe" and inject glue underneath the peeling veneer and stabilize it. Don't ask me where to buy one ;D
Or just gently pry up the edges and put a little glue under them. Do not take any more veneer off, if you can help it.
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Agree glue & clamp veneer where needed, wipe any wood glue off with a soft cloth dampened with warm water if any bleeds to the front when gluing (it will) and you will want to remove before drying so as little sanding needs to be done as possible. Them polish with Old English "Dark and this piece will be a beauty and at a great buying price!!
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Yep!
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Sometimes, an ironing board iron ..... and a moist cotton cloth ..... will re-glue the loose veneer.
The heat softens the original glue ..... and the pressure of the iron forces it to "re-attach" itself. In essence, the heat makes "contact cement" outta the glue. ;D ;D
An iron and a damp cotton cloth also works for removing dents and creases from wood. It forces "steam" (water) back into the compressed grain .... causing it to expand back to normal.
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Rather than using a furniture syringe,, just go to your local vet and get one for about a dollar !! Usually the same gauge for penicillin works great since its pretty thick !! Might need to thin the wood glue with a drop of water, draw it into the syringe first then put the needle on !! Inject it under the areas that need glueing and then clamp or weigh down !!
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Beat me to it mart! Go to a vet and get a syringe or ask at the pharmacy!!!!
Just be VERY CAREFUL if you do the ironing. I literally saw someone SCORCH their wood!!! They didn't know what they were doing and dried out then burned the wood! AND NOT IT WASN'T ME!!!!!
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Great advice!
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I have tried both KC and pharmacies usually only carry small gauge needles !! Vets have larger ones for livestock and work much better !! I have heard of scorching happening on occassion !! Always put a towel between iron and wood !!
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Thank you all - cogar, wull, ghopper, wendy, mart, & KC - for your replies & encouragement.
It is indeed a gorgeous bed - thanks, g-hop :). The beauty of the wood even shines through its present layer of grime. And I love that it’s a sleigh bed, but without any real overhang to “prow” or “stern” - my apartment is too small to give up much floor space to pure ornamentation.
I’d thought early 20th C, too. It has only a few touches of the “whiplash” curvilinearity characteristic of Art Nouveau, and the cleanliness and not-quite-severity of the lines put me in mind of Art Deco - is there such a thing as post-Nouveau/pre-Deco?
(Along those lines, does anyone know or have suggestions on how to find out when LC & WL Cron *stopped* making furniture under that name? I’ve found info on their 1868 start-up, & on some very Victorian stuff from 1898, but nothing beyond 1900 so far.)
My general plan is to first rinse off the dust & loose dirt with water & mild soap, followed immediately by a wipe-down with rubbing alcohol and then with a clean-&-feed wood conditioner (Method “Wood For Good” until the bottle runs out, & then Weiman’s Lemon Oil).
To be clear, the only veneer I am removing is the stuff that is truly done for and half-gone already, as in the photo below. I’m also saving the larger pieces in case I get truly brave and want to try using it to patch some of the better veneer.
Then I’ll move onto repairs, which will mostly be reattaching many smallish areas of loose/blistered/ruffled/cracked veneer.
The idea of “ironing my bed” seems weird as heck, but at the same time absolutely logical. The moist-to-damp towel “steam treatment” sounds like a good way to go - thanks, cogar! :)
I was reading somewhere on the web (so it *must* be a good idea :) ) about people using waxed paper in between the veneer and an ironing cloth/towel with a warm iron - has anyone here tried this?
(KC, I’m guessing whoever scorched the wood must have had the iron on pretty hot, like a “cotton” or “linen” setting? I wouldn’t think wood would scorch at the lower end of the “steam” range, or am I wrong?)
I love the idea of a “furniture syringe” - I have some cat-sized syringes leftover from old feline-veterinary adventures that may be just about right. Has anyone tired to get old glue and/or gunk out from under detached veneer, or it it best just to let it lie?
Thanks again to everyone :)
- Evelyn
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The photo below is my best picture/photo-edit of the label so far - it’s amazingly hard to get a decent photo of it. Once I figure out how to remove the label without damaging it too much, I’ll be able to (clean it some more and) scan it, which should give a much better image.
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This is what the vast majority of the veneer looks like - much grime (& bad previous finishing?) and many smallish areas of loose/blistered/ruffled/cracked veneer to be reattached.
(Hunh - I'd tried to attach all three photos (they're each about 300 KB to 400 KB) with my first reply above, but gave up after waiting 10 minutes for the post to appear. These single-photo posts are coming up fine, though...)
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I learned something from sreyomac glass syringe post. You can get a glue syringe and apply under the veneer.
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Use the “linen” setting, the iron has to be hot.
Like ironing a shirt, …. iffen you want to leave the iron lying flat on the shirt while you go talk on the telephone, then do it.
That’s why one uses a damp cloth when ironing (actually called “pressing” I believe) most anything that is per say “delicate”. The cloth will scorch or burn before the underlying material will.
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"is there such a thing as post-Nouveau/pre-Deco?"
There were a couple of things on the ascendency in furniture design during the period of ca. 1905-1920 in the U.S. One was the craftsman style as exemplified by Gustave Stickley and the other was neoclassicism, which marked a return to more formal and disciplined classical design as influenced by the Ecole de Beaux-Arts and as a reaction to the "excesses" of the arts in the Victorian era.
Furniture from this time period is usually - but not always - oak.
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There were at least 4 or 5 styles going on around that period so take your pick !! There was no cut and dried time period for any of them !! Many flowed into each other !!
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"There were at least 4 or 5 styles going on around that period"
AT least? Let's hear about them!
And yes, edges are fuzzy but most years are more marked by one characteristic style than another.
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Well,, lets see during the late Victorian era there was what is typically known as Victorian style, the arts & Crafts period was from about 1860 to roughly 1915, the art nouveau and art deco period 20`s and 30`s and mixed in with all that were the revival styles empire, jacobean, chippendale, queen anne etc,, etc,, !! Most of which lasted through the 30`s !! So its really hard to put a timeline on any of them !! And on top of all that the west coast had spanish revival !!
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Okay, lemme see if I've got this right...
Neoclassicism -
Started with the Renaissance in other areas; but didn't reach furniture until about the start of the 19th century. Once there, however, it stuck around until at least the early 20th century. (If I'm not mistaken, Revival, Empire, Jacobean, Chippendale, Queen Anne are all sub-groups under the Neoclassical heading.) Neoclassicism may be showing up in my bed's simple lines and clean curves.
Victorian -
1840-something to 1905-ish. Heavy, highly ornamented, intricately detailed. Someone who didn't particularly care for this style might say that its worst excesses seem to be what happened when mass production hit Rococo. Someone who didn't particularly care for this style but did own my bed might admit to seeing a possible Victorian influence in a slight heaviness to the bed's overall shape, but that's about as far as she'd be willing to go.
Arts & Crafts style -
Started mid-19th century, was partially subsumed into Art Nouveau in the late 19th & early 20th centuries, and then largely surpassed by Art Deco in the 1920's - 1940's. What I'll call the "graceful utilitarianism" of my bed's overall design would be in keeping with the "form follows function" principle underlying the entire Arts & Crafts Movement.
Art Nouveau -
Started late 19th century, continued into 1920's or so. My bed's gracefully scrolling legs & feet seem to reflect the "whiplash" line characteristic of Art Nouveau.
Art Deco -
1920's through 1940's. Neoclassicism for the machine/atomic age, often influenced by then-freshly-(re)discovered Egyptian antiquities. The simple, "streamlined' lines of my bed could Neoclassicism showing up in Art Deco.
So, my bed show Neoclassical, Arts &Crafts, & Art Nouveau influences. I think I'll stick to calling the bed's style "post-Nouveau," at least to myself, not least because I like the oxymoron-wordplay of it. :)
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If I put a particular style for your bed I would say late Empire Revival,, Heavy roll at top as well as scroll foot !! The overall look of the bed with the solid head and footboard and roll has a heavy appearance as were many pieces from that style !!
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I think that neoclassical will do just fine!
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Okay, so not so my "post-Nouveau;" maybe closer to "Able was I ere I saw Elba" -
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:San_Martino_-_Napoleons_Haus_Bett.jpg (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:San_Martino_-_Napoleons_Haus_Bett.jpg)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:17-6-09-Villa_san_Martino_(23).JPG (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:17-6-09-Villa_san_Martino_(23).JPG)
My bed could be a simplified style based on this bed from Napoleon's house on Elba - I was startled to see the similarities in the flat, veneered bodies of the head- and footboards. (Not sure if this was actually Napoleon's bed; but, unless my sense of proportion is off, whoever slept in it was either very short or very uncomfortable.)
Empire Revival also seems to date to the mid-to-late 19th century, which seems to correspond to when LC & WL Cron were making furniture under that name.
Maybe I'll have a try at getting the label off of its side rail today, in the hope of then being able to clean it up enough to maybe get a date off of it - assuming, of course, that I don't destroy it in the process... :-\
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http://archive.org/stream/cataloguelc00lcwl#page/n1/mode/2up
Here is their 1898 catalogue !! If it isn`t in here see if they have later editions !! I am thinking your bed was made after 1900 but check and see !!
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Evelyn, steam off, dry dish towel in between and medium heat.
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Right KC !!