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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: AmberS on September 12, 2019, 06:15:34 pm
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I bought this cabinet/cupboard a couple of weeks ago strictly because I fell in love with how it looks. I assumed that I'd be able to research it with photos and figure out its (approximate) age and where it had likely come from...yet I can't see to find anything that really looks like it. Only one with a similar configuration of doors and drawers was referred to as a "dowry cupboard", and it was French. Some of the other cabinets I've seen that had similar facial carvings were from Belgium, and the carvings on the sides of the cabinet are similar to the front panels on a couple of English oak items...so I hope someone out there has seen this before and can give me a hint where to turn next.
This one is locked and has what I would consider BIG skeleton key locks, but I've found a locksmith who says he can make keys for me...the right drawer was modified with a hinge to fold down to accommodate a Victrola, so the handle could be turned from in front. It's heavy but not too heavy for my son and I to lift without much strain, and it is two pieces. The bottom section has the drawers.
I was able to get one arm down into the bottom section because of the modification of the drawer front, and took a photo of the back of one of the door locks. There are no screws, it appears to have been secured by pressing a pin or hammering it into place. All of this may be perfectly normal for an antique cabinet, I really don't know.
I've attached photos (well, I assume I will be able to) Any help is much appreciated!
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.the right drawer was modified with a hinge to fold down to accommodate a Victrola,
Is the "lock" mechanism still in the right-hand drawer "facing"?
If so, take it out and take it to different antique furniture dealers, one may have a key that works.
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My guess is ca. 1870, northwest Europe (Belgium, France or Brittany).
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Sadly, neither of the drawers have locks, only pulls. Good idea, though!
Thanks to both of you for the suggestions and the guess about the cabinet's origins. I was thinking it was probably more than 100 years old, it's nice that you think so, too. I appreciate it!
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Take a pic of the dovetail joints on the outside of the drawer !! Where the drawer front meets the side ,,please !!
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Here are the sides of the drawer...they aren't very precise, so I assume that means they were handmade, but does this particular style indicate age or origin?
I'm also including a poor photo of the side panel, this pattern is on both sides, top and bottom, vertically. The midsection is horizontal. I saw this particular pattern on one other piece of furniture, it was English (or at least was identified as English).
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Those are "hand-cut" dovetails ……… which maybe …. could date it more precisely.
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https://www.harpgallery.com/library/dovetails.htm
Everyone here may find this interesting !! England would be the last on my list of possibles !! I do think France Germany or Belgium would be likely !! But even Germanic regions of the U.S. can not be discounted !! My opinion is that it was made around the turn of the century to about 1910 !!
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The article notes that hand-cut dovetails were used in Europe through the 1930s and even into the 1940s, so that doesn't really help with your piece, which was clearly made well before then.
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OH, WOW, …… AmberS, ….. I think we forgot to ask you, ……. where are you located at,..... or actually, …. where and/or from whom did you purchase your cabinet?
City, state, country, …… private sale, antique dealer??
Every little bit aids in figuring out the provenance, ……. the chronology of the ownership, custody or location of a historical object
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I bought it in Keller, Texas from an individual who inherited it from her aunt via her mother. She was downsizing and had to get rid of some pieces that would no longer fit into her household. I believe she said it came from her grandmother originally...I was pretty excited when I went to pick it up so I may be wrong about the grandmother part...the photo I provided was taken in her storage unit.
I live in Weatherford, 30 miles outside of Ft. Worth, Texas.
I know virtually nothing about antiques but I live in one (154 years old this year) so the cupboard fits in.
I still have her phone number so I can call her and see if she can tell me more. Thanks, everyone, for the guidance!
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As I said earlier,,Germanic regions of the U.S can not be discounted !!
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Especially in the early days, pre-20th Century, most furniture was transported to Texas.
So, like Mart implied, ….. your chest could have came from an area in the upper Midwest, ….. or the Eastern or Northeast US.
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Hey Amber:
Got any photos of your house? Sounds cool.....
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Hmmmm, I think a late 19th early 20th century piece, most of the carvings seem applied. I don't think american, more likely european.
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Guesses a Gothic style revival piece (with a couple other styles as well), probably made in Belgium. Gothic revival was very big in europe, A LOT of it around, particularly in late 19th- early 20th century.
As Americans, we pretty much missed out on this style as it is medieval or middle ages and we simply were not around then so we never had a "Gothic" period or even a revival.
Here is a cab that sold last year at Briggs in Pa, late 19th built in Belgium
https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/Gothic-Style-Carved-Oak-Cabinet_4A04B1AA30
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Yep!!
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Jacon $,, actually we did have a Gothic period but it was not until about 1920 or after !! Remember California Gothic !! This cabinet has machine carved panels on front which began in ernest about 1890 annd after !! The machinery was developed prior to that but since I gave the book to Cogar I can not give the date !! I forgot !! Europe did not have the ability to do this work except by hand as far as I can find !! I can not see any evidence of hand carving here !!
No way to know really but I strongly suspect it was made here !! Couple of hundred miles from Ft Worth to Fredericksburg Texas
which had a large German population !! No huge producers but we had some smaller ones !!
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Well, you know, almost anything is possible when manufacturing "modern" furniture as far as origins are concerned. When i think of "gothic" furniture, i am talking 12-15th centuries and, we simply have no history as americans that way. Might have been a few Vikings wandering around here though :) :) but no permanent settlements by european peoples.
It would be helpful to know what the primary & secondary wood species are on OP cabinet as a way to help determine what country of origin is, still, as of today with pics provided i am guessing european origin. It just has that "look" to me of european gothic revival which was a very big deal over there at turn of 20th century.
Who is jacon$, did he win some money? a prize? over here?
Just looked again at pics, the secondary wood on drawers looks like oak to me, european! :P
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Hey Amber:
Got any photos of your house? Sounds cool.....
Sure, I have one taken during a rare snow a couple of years ago, and one this spring when a few wildflowers popped up. For some reason, I'm not able to attach them to this response. I will try putting them in a new comment.
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Guesses a Gothic style revival piece (with a couple other styles as well), probably made in Belgium. Gothic revival was very big in europe, A LOT of it around, particularly in late 19th- early 20th century.
As Americans, we pretty much missed out on this style as it is medieval or middle ages and we simply were not around then so we never had a "Gothic" period or even a revival.
Here is a cab that sold last year at Briggs in Pa, late 19th built in Belgium
https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/Gothic-Style-Carved-Oak-Cabinet_4A04B1AA30
The sides are the same carvings as mine! I wanted to add another photo with the carving of a man wearing a helmet, but I guess I have loaded all the pics it will allow by now, it won't let me do anymore.
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"The sides are the same carvings as mine! "
Yes, that carving is called "linenfold" or linen fold, this is what Wiki says about it
"Linenfold (or linen fold) is a simple style of relief carving used to decorate wood panelling with a design "imitating window tracery",[1] "imitating folded linen"[2] or "stiffly imitating folded material".[3] Originally from Flanders, the style became widespread across Northern Europe in the 14th to 16th centuries. The name was applied to the decorative style by antiquarian connoisseurs in the early 19th century; the contemporary name was apparently lignum undulatum (Latin: "wavy wood"), Nathaniel Lloyd pointed out."
Flanders is the Dutch-speaking northern portion of Belgium, a big player in gothic revival furniture in late 19th- early 20th century in europe, which is why i guessed Belgium as origin.
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I wanted to add another photo with the carving of a man wearing a helmet, but I guess I have loaded all the pics it will allow by now, it won't let me do anymore.
AmberS, ……. re-size your pictures for "web or e-mail", and then they will "up-load" to AQF.
Your photo-program probably has a "copy" or "save-as" function, … do it, …. then upload copy. 8)
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I'd say it's important to point out that value wise, it doesn't make much if any difference where your cabinet was made, whether here or in europe. This gothic style with it's heavy germanic/dutch strap hinges remains popular in europe and increasingly here as well.
There was a discussion on another forum about this gothic revival style a year or so ago and i did a little research on period gothic furniture and posted some photos, i'll try and find them. Every country in europe had it's own unique version of this medieval style.
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Thanks for all the info~ my head spun around a couple times, especially about the "linenfold". The more I learn, the more fascinating this is. Hard to believe all you guys can just rattle this off from memory!!
Anyone willing to guess about the value? I've already bought it so that's moot, I'm just curious.
Also, I shrank my photos as small as I could, but I think I may have exceeded the total space allowed for my posting. I'm embarrassed to say I had to get my daughter's help to figure out how to use the "quote" thingy so I haven't specifically replied to everyone but THANK YOU to all who have written, I've read every word several times. Tonight I will go back and try swapping the original photos with smaller ones, maybe that will fix it. Then I'll be able to put in one of the house.
Actually, I just realized I can send a link from the historical society.
https://www.parkercountyheritagesociety.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=62524&module_id=55591&sl=992525244
(According to them, I have overestimated the age of the house by four years, but...I still think I'm correct, will have to check papers.) Compared to other old houses here, mine is very modestly dressed- basically just a big farmhouse, but it feels very spacious inside and we love living here. Neighbors, but not too close. :-)
If you like old houses, you could Google Earth Weatherford and look around the southwest quadrant around the courthouse...not hard to find at all. There are several in the area around me that are amazing.
Thanks again!
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Love the house! very nice, let me see if i can post a pic of your link here.
Posting pics here is problematic no doubt, i have struggled with it as well at times. :(
click to enlarge
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Yes, medieval furniture is interesting, just the word MEDIEVAL has a mysterious ring to it. And wood, being perishable, there isn't a lot of this in period (12th -15th century) furniture around with most of it extant, in european museums.
A brief history:
Gothic furniture, when compared to the other European furniture styles, is covering the longest period. The Gothic period proper lasted from the 12th to the 15th century, while its characteristic ornaments survived side by side with the new influences up to the beginning of the 17th century. The Gothic furniture style even had its own Renaissance with the Gothic revival of the 19th century.
The furniture of the Gothic period, with its characteristic contour and ornaments, derived from the Gothic Art which originated in France at the beginning of the 12th century. In its early stages, the furniture was quite simple, then it evolved towards an architectural character. The decorations were done by painting and, later, mainly carving, with tracery as principal element.
The Gothic period furniture, similar to the Gothic architecture, had local particularities, one of them being the wood used for its construction. In England, Germany, and the Low Countries it was mainly oak, in France, chestnut, in Italy and Spain walnut.
The carving had almost a geometrical character. The chief ornamentation motifs, imported from architecture, were the pointed arch, the trefoil and quatrefoil, the wheel, the rose, and the linen-fold.
Early chests were of simple, robust construction, decorated only with ornamental hinges. Initially, they were used exclusively for travel. Later in the period, as the chests grew larger and heavier, they became static, elaborately carved pieces of furniture, and main components of the Gothic interior decor.
The armoire became the main piece of the domestic Gothic interior. It was more luxurious than any other piece in residences of all classes. Variations like cupboards, cabinets, French armoires and buffets, all were in use during the Gothic period.
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Beautiful house!
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Beautiful house!
Yeah, is! very nice.
OK, let's get back to my fav subject, old furniture!
In the beginning (1000-1250), they had a problem, how to join the boards together to make furniture forms? wood nails or pegs had not been thought of or invented yet, the answer? IRON STRAPS!!! YES! that's it!
click to enlarge
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And later, when furniture was joined with wood pegs to make "draw bore" joints as the structural element to hold the boards together, they kept right on with the Iron straps, incorporating them into the hinges & i am guessing, as a decorating element as well. Is pretty sure the iron workers went along with this 100%.
My Fav period Medieval cabinets/ click to enlarge
1. 13th century, France
2. 15th century Germany
3. Germany C 1400
4. Germany late 15th century
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And finally, English Tudor 15th century cupboard, Tudor marked the end of medieval period in england & beginning of the english renaissance
Bottom pic is a Tudor cupboard at the MET, late 15th century
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"Anyone willing to guess about the value? I've already bought it so that's moot, I'm just curious"
Geez, not a clue! Wait for others to post, Mart & Ghopper. Not as much as you would think, how much did you pay? If it was a period piece like photos above, it would be some serious money but late 19th century revival is a totally different dealio.
Thing is, it's not about the money, it's about having interesting things to live with. :)
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WOW, this is all so cool!! I love that it's Gothic, but, like you say...it's about having something interesting to live with.
Thanks for the compliments about the house, it's really just a big farmhouse. We like it!
As for what I paid...haha...I'll tell after some people give their opinions on what it's worth. Maybe I got hosed, but I love it so much, I don't think I care.
I'm waiting to hear back from the seller about what else she can tell me about the cabinet.
Thanks soooo much!!!
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OK Jacon 4 ( hit the right key this time) You paid between $750. and $1200.although the lower is what I would think !!
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Hard to say without putting eyes and hands on it, but northeast of you in Missouri I'd say $1K to $1500 on a good day.
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OK Jacon 4 ( hit the right key this time)
And, i was counting on a prize! :P
I'll tell after some people give their opinions on what it's worth
OK Amber, let's hear it! :) I'd say that would be fair in a retail setting what Mart & Ghopper quoted (750-1500), naturally location matters quite a bit on these things. I am more an american 17th- 18th century kinda furniture guy so i really don't know on your cabinet.
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Beautiful house!
Yeah, is! very nice.
OK, let's get back to my fav subject, old furniture!
In the beginning (1000-1250), they had a problem, how to join the boards together to make furniture forms? wood nails or pegs had not been thought of or invented yet, the answer? IRON STRAPS!!! YES! that's it!
click to enlarge
Can you tell Jacon4 is really in to the old stuff !!
This chest cupboard is a reproduction on the older styles !! This has been done since 1800 `s although this one is not that old !! Still,, over a hundred years old aint too shabby !!
Love your house AmberS !!
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Your house is big enough to make a perfect setting for the cupboard, which regardless of age or origin will be the only one in the neighborhood I bet. It reminds me almost of a vestry from a church?
Here's a seller from overseas that carries interesting pieces: http://www.bae.be/inventory/individual-items (http://www.bae.be/inventory/individual-items)
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Can you tell Jacon4 is really in to the old stuff !!
Well yeah is! Pretty interesting, you take those small "Aumbry" cupboards ( name for food cupboard in middle ages) is basically a 500-700 year old medieval pie safe, a form of furniture still being made in the early 20th century.
They occasionally come on the market and competition for them is fierce, they have EVERYTHING going for them, they're ancient, they're small, they're still functional & some have very cool Gothic carvings for air vents.
In England during that time called "Livery" cupboard as well as Aumbry, some were wall hung & some had feet similar to a modern day pie safe, VERY cool little cabinets though and highly collectible.
Medieval Aumbry / Livery Cupboards
The top pic is
" Open-work panels of perpendicular Gothic with the letter A and two single ostrich feathers.Formerly owned by Arthur, Prince of Wales, eldest son of Henry VII. Found in a Shropshire farmhouse." Now in Victoria & Albert Museum, London
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Love those Aubrey cupboards. I can see why they're so popular.
Cool link, Rauville!
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OK Jacon 4 ( hit the right key this time) You paid between $750. and $1200.although the lower is what I would think !!
Whew! Y'all had me a little worried, but I feel good now! I found it on Facebook Marketplace (or more accurately, it found me, jumped right off the screen). Original price was $600 but she accepted $500, maybe because there were no keys for the locks. I felt like I got a good deal, it was worth $500 to me. I told my kids that they have to pick a nursing home with rooms big enough to allow me to have this cabinet, and then they can bury me in it.
I think I'm going to become an antiques fiend now. :-)
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The Aumbry cupboards are so cool. I assume they are pretty rare?
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Yes, very rare if in medieval period as wood is a perishable substance and many things can go wrong during that many centuries of time. Even 17th century livery cupboards are rare but much more readily available. At top of this page you see pics of those 2 Tudor (late 15th early 16th century) cupboards and if you notice, the heavy iron straps are gone but the gothic carved air holes are still present.
Here is a mid 17th century english Aumbry/Livery cupboard, same form cupboard but a big difference in decoration
https://www.marhamchurchantiques.com/current-stock/?type=cupboards
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I'd say $500. was very fair for your revival cupboard, you get the medieval "look" for not a lot of money.
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Ahhh,,we have another antique convert !! No more Pier 1 for you huh ?? ;D
You got a good deal !! I am curious to see the inside of the cabinet !! Can you open the top and bottom doors and take a pic ??
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I wish I could, but I have no keys yet. Judging by the outside of the lock, these skeleton keys are going to be monsters. Just hope they don't cost me a fortune to get made.
And thanks for the value estimates, I was hoping I got a fair deal. I have a couple of other items I'm going to be asking about that I came across around the same time that I got the cabinet. I'll put them on a separate question because they are totally unrelated (not furniture). It's funny how I stumbled across these things when I wasn't really looking for them.
I'm wondering now if there are any good antique shows/sales near me that aren't in the dog days of summer...y'all know of any? I'd like to go to one and just look around. Anything within four or five hours drive would be good...I can get to San Antonio in five hours, or maybe Tulsa, or Bossier City.
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Judging by the outside of the lock, these skeleton keys are going to be monsters. Just hope they don't cost me a fortune to get made.
Hmmmm, you might consider just disable the locks if the keys cost a lot.
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"I'm wondering now if there are any good antique shows/sales near me that aren't in the dog days of summer...y'all know of any?"
I believe the Roundtop shows are starting this month.
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Love that Aubrey from 1490.
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Go to a few antique shops in your area or look on ebey !! Will not be difficult to find a skeleton key that will work !! Don`t discount the "not so big" keys !! You just need one that will turn the tumbler !!
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Your house is big enough to make a perfect setting for the cupboard, which regardless of age or origin will be the only one in the neighborhood I bet. It reminds me almost of a vestry from a church?
Here's a seller from overseas that carries interesting pieces: http://www.bae.be/inventory/individual-items (http://www.bae.be/inventory/individual-items)
Yes, I think I have the only one in the neighborhood! I just love it! Never been this excited about furniture before!
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Go to a few antique shops in your area or look on ebey !! Will not be difficult to find a skeleton key that will work !! Don`t discount the "not so big" keys !! You just need one that will turn the tumbler !!
Really? Heck, my mom has a few skeleton keys on a ring at her house. Might try those out just for fun. Wouldn't that be crazy if she had a key already that would fit?
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Hi All!
Just now getting in on this. Been in Israel, Palestine, etc for a couple of weeks. Internet was few and far between and was "banned" from the site (most likely due to foreign computers!) :)
My first impression is Dutch from all the cabinets I have seen through the years.
Harris Antiques in Fort Worth used to import boatload containers full of items like this in the 70's until the 90's when they closed up shop here. (Much to my dismay but they were to retire!) They were a reputable family run company that started small in Arlington, TX, expanded to a mid size location on E Loop 820 and then purchased an entire shopping center/mall in S Fort Worth on Scott Street off of I30 that they filled with originals, knockoffs, Foreign and American made. Mr. Harris wasn't wanting to give it all up (I think she was) and opened a "smaller" Barn location in Hillsborough so he could still stay busy in retirement (It is closed now). I bought my prized French Side Board from them during the Going Out Of Business Sale (I had watched this piece for a couple of years $11K and got it for under $2K because they didn't want to move it - it is now appraised for over $17K)
Can you take a picture of the inside? and back?
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My first impression is Dutch from all the cabinets I have seen through the years.
Yes, it could very well be, Gothic revival was big there, also in Belgium & France, thing is, i would be surprised if american.
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used to import boatload containers full of items like this in the 70's until the 90's
HA, …. that was my 1st thought …… but I didn't say anything. 8)
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Can you take a picture of the inside? and back?
The cabinet is locked, so no photos of inside until I solve that. Will take photos of back when I have help to move it, but there may not be enough space left to post them. Going to go look at some Dutch cabinets now!
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AmberS, you can get more pictures on here when you post a reply (like I am doing now.) You are limited in size each time.
Not saying that Harris was/is the only source in our area (I am in the DFW area as well) but they sure brought majority of antiques to this area.
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used to import boatload containers full of items like this in the 70's until the 90's
Agrees, ditto on east coast from 1960s-1980s
Prime container goods from europe, almost or just antique, looks ancient, exotic, not american looking, bla bla bla
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Yes they did,, I bought a lot of those when I had my shop !! Davis antiques in Sulphur Springs literally had piles of them !! They had a good size operation and dip stripped many pieces !! I bought before they did that !! Even if I had to do a little more work mine were the better items for sale !! This was 70`s through the 80`s !! Most of what they had was from England so I got an education on English Furniture !! But what teed me off was the dealers in my area that passed these off as American !! Only one that did not was a lady from Germany !! She imported from Germany and surrounding area !!
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AmberS, there are so many locksmiths in the FW area that are able to reproduce Skeleton Keys and fit your locks. Just have to inquire with reputable ones and check out the pricing. Most will want to come to your location since you can't open your cabinet. (I have had to have some made for antique pieces and was able to take the door in for them to make one - much cheaper than a house call.) Ask for ALL COSTS!
Also, hopefully all of your locks are keyed for the same key! My large pieces typically have been keyed for one key to top sections, one key to bottom sections and if there are drawers a different one for that. Although a great security precaution, it can get costly depending on who you get to rekey. (Note: I didn't key them this way - it was they way they originally came!)
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I had baskets of skeleton keys that I bought for a few dollars per dozen !! I could always find one that matched the locks !! They are almost universal !!
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I found a locksmith in Bedford who said he could make keys for me, no problem...but I'd have to haul the cabinet to him, and leave it for a while. Honestly, now that I have it I don't want to take it anywhere.
Actually it's not the TAKING part that bothers me...it's the LEAVING part that makes me nervous.
Any recommendations on a locksmith who might come this far west and do keys for me? Or where I might pick up some keys to try? I saw some on line that sold as a set, didn't know if they'd be worth the effort. I think they were about $30.
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Now I have been thinking, since those lock mechanisms are not complicated, that iffen it was my chest that I fashion a piece of flat metal with a handle and blade ….. in the shape of a “key” that could be inserted in the lock mechanism.
Then I would put like a 1/16th inch of wax, modeling clay or whatever on the blade. Then insert into the lock ….. and slowly turn it counter-clockwise until it stops, …... then untwist (unturn) and remove it …… and iffen you are lucky, ….. the shape of the needed key will be impressed (molded) in the wax, etc.
Then I would make the key to match the “mold”. 8) 8) 8)
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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xskeleton+keys.TRS0&_nkw=skeleton+keys&_sacat=0
Skeleton keys are not hard to match !! For much less than you would pay for a locksmith just buy a bunch and try them !! If we shop owners could do it,, so can you !! You might have to wiggle it a little !! Not a single shop owner that I knew back then ever called a locksmith !! We kept a stash of skeleton keys !!
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The ones I had for my French Cabinets were difficult and required turning the key 3 times around to unlock all the locks (6 on the one cabinet and 3 different keys).
I totally trust Michael's keys (817) 581-8992 and know they have more locations in Mid Cities nearest you. It's worth a phone call!
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The ones I had for my French Cabinets were difficult and required turning the key 3 times around to unlock all the locks (6 on the one cabinet and 3 different keys)
Yeah, european locks can be a pain, why i suggested just disable them, easier all round but still, you gotta get door open first so there is that. :P
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https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313.TR12.TRC2.A0.H0.Xskeleton+keys.TRS0&_nkw=skeleton+keys&_sacat=0
Skeleton keys are not hard to match !! For much less than you would pay for a locksmith just buy a bunch and try them !! If we shop owners could do it,, so can you !! You might have to wiggle it a little !! Not a single shop owner that I knew back then ever called a locksmith !! We kept a stash of skeleton keys !!
Great idea! I'll go shopping tomorrow...several places close by that might have some keys :-)
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The ones I had for my French Cabinets were difficult and required turning the key 3 times around to unlock all the locks (6 on the one cabinet and 3 different keys).
I totally trust Michael's keys (817) 581-8992 and know they have more locations in Mid Cities nearest you. It's worth a phone call!
Thank you, I will keep this number and call if I can't find a key on my own. There are some shops here in town that might have a few. Worth a shot!
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The ones I had for my French Cabinets were difficult and required turning the key 3 times around to unlock all the locks (6 on the one cabinet and 3 different keys)
Yeah, european locks can be a pain, why i suggested just disable them, easier all round but still, you gotta get door open first so there is that. :P
Totally agree about leaving the locks open! :-)
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Totally agree about leaving the locks open! :-)
Yes, I had a bad experience years ago with an 18th century painted blanket chest, It had it's lock but no key. After it arrived, i turned it up on it's end to examine the bottom, BIG MISTAKE! I hear this "click", what was that? i wondered. Soon realized lock had LOCKED ITSELF! so i figured, no problem, I'll just turn it up on other end and lock will unlock itself? KEEP DREAMING!
Took me days of messing with lock to get it open and when i did, disabled the lock. Lesson learned the hard way, disable the lock ( if there is one) as soon as the piece arrives!
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Wow, thanks for the heads up. Would never have dreamed that would happen.
I'm shopping on line for key sets. :-)
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Check the link I posted above !!
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Ok, here's the latest development in this saga of this cabinet:
A friend told me about a local locksmith who was exclusively mobile and I called him. His prices were reasonable so I went for it...he had a key made in about 15 minutes, using a barrel blank I already had. He just cut it a little. He told me to keep looking in shops for old keys of the same size, and he could stop by and cut more. Apparently ordering a blank in this size would be about $20, so this will give me an excuse to prowl some antique places.
NOW, when the upper cabinet was opened, I discovered a medallion fixed to the back wall on the right, which would have been above the phonograph player. It says "Cheney Talking Machine Company". I looked them up and, as near as I can tell, someone had this cabinet modified not only for the "talking machine" but the left side has some added wood that's clearly for organizing/storing vinyl records. That bit is not all there but it's definitely made with a machine, and has screws in it. (Even the locks don't have screws, nor do the hinges).
My working theory is that someone wanted a phonograph player (the new very expensive one...it cost $240 in 1914) but didn't like the look of the cabinets, so they had one built into this cabinet, which is much bigger and more ornate than the cabinets made for the machines. The company was in Chicago but I suppose someone could have built it into the cabinet elsewhere...still, the fact that they'd go to the trouble of mounting that medallion makes me think it might have been done by the factory.
I'm adding new photos, and giving a shout out to Travis, who made my new key. :-)
If anyone knows anything about this new twist in the story, I'm all ears. Thanks!
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Very Cool! glad you got doors open, or some open anyway.
It also helps date your cab, you now know it was made before 1914.
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Yes, I am thrilled! And lucky for me, the lock was the same on all four doors, so I only needed the one key...we only had the one blank that was big enough. He suggested I use a stretch cord to actually attach it somewhere inside the drawer (which has no lock) so there would never be any danger of losing it. I am going to make an attempt to find another key of similar size before doing that.
I am so hooked on old furniture now. :-)
Thanks for all the help!
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Cheney was a competitor (lower end) to Victrola. However, that said, they were taken to court by Victrola many times for patent infringement. In the end, the court ruled in Cheney's favor. Cheney was funded and distributed by the mega Marshall Fields Store.
The round medallion plate is what was typically mounted to the front of the Cheney wooden cabinet (the cabinets was made in Grand Rapids Michigan - by Berkey & Gay Furniture Company). There was a square metal plate that had a the Style # and Patent # that was located inside the cabinet. Cheney produced many styles of cabinets well into 1925 (year Mr. Cheney died). So...your medallion could be from anywhere in that time range forward.
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Well,, I wasn`t entirely wrong !!
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The round medallion plate is what was typically mounted to the front of the Cheney wooden cabinet (the cabinets was made in Grand Rapids Michigan - by Berkey & Gay Furniture Company). There was a square metal plate that had a the Style # and Patent # that was located inside the cabinet. Cheney produced many styles of cabinets well into 1925 (year Mr. Cheney died). So...your medallion could be from anywhere in that time range forward.
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The weird part is, the medallion looks brand new. The screws holding it in look aged but not the medallion itself. I would have expected it to tarnish.
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Well,, I wasn`t entirely wrong !!
If you were wrong then I missed it. :-) I appreciate your help.
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Mart you are a hoot! You are ALWAYS helpful!
AmberS, your cabinets previous owner could have had a record player even in the 60's! :) Maybe a Phonography buff!
You can still purchase those medallions online from people selling them after they were removed from old cabinets.
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Ha !! Just had to say that cause no one ever agrees with me !! ;D Gotta have a little fun !!
PS,, Now I will get back on my stump !!