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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: richardo21 on February 19, 2010, 08:28:30 pm
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Inheritied this mirror, it is said to have come from Scotland in the mid to late 1800s with my great grand parents. It has 4 coat hooks with lion faces made of brass and painted black, and a carved face at the top ( as best as I can describe)of old man winter. the mirror is beveled and the frame oak. On the back are the number 8689 which appear to be punched in. two brass looking hanging tabs at the top of the mirror. I have checked with other dealers and none have ever seen anything like it. So hopefully someone in this forum can help.
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Nice 'hall' or 'foyer' mirror .
Appears to be made from oak (?) .
Nice 'green man' at it's top .
Welcome to the forum , richardo21 .
Betcha' other members will have input on your item too .
Often these types of framed items were suspended by rather long chains (typically brass) and hung from a coved wooden rail along tall-ceiling walls .
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Really nice.
Tell me this wouldn't add style to any room.
How are the detailed hangers secured? Is the greenman separately applied and is there any areas on the back that didn't get stained?
Might help to have a photo of the back if possible. Who knows, might be a clue there.
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Yes, is the face applied separately? It appears to be, but perhaps not?
Furthermore, you are correct in that the faces are meant to characterize wind or winter. The tone of the mirror is wonderful, I especially love the handles. Unfortunately I have yet to see another quite like yours.
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Factory produced mirror. German & Italian workers,working from Grand Rapids furniture co's. 1890's to 1920's. Grain is tiger oak. other possible is The Stomps- Burkhart co.
circa 1890 to 1928 Dayton Ohio. $150.00 to $ 200.00 Dollars.
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I agree....great mirror. The faces do represent seasons...but I also like to think of Snow White's story...and these good faces help keep out the bad omens!
In my southern neck of the woods...if in pristine condition....I would bump the value from $150 to $350.
Thanks for sharing!
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In the San Francisco Bay Area anything with a carved face seems to command a higher price too.
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Refinished to Golden Oak would be my preference.
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Would anyone care to elaborate on how to tell Tiger Oak apart from other oaks? (Learning experience)
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Cogar can give a better explanation then I can. but if you look carefully you can '' See'' the lines in the grain. if this had been refinished they would show brightly.
The tiger oak grain, is considered more desireable because it's quarter sawn. which produces the stripes.
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Thanks for all who have responded, the hanger on the mirror are attached to the fram via a bolt going through and nutted on the back. The carved face has an appearance of being carved into the wood because looking at the grain, both the face and the frame grains line up very well and looking over the edges of the carved face, I see no gaps or irregularity that may suggest a seperate piece glued or dowled to the mirror frame. I am eclosing a picture of the back, I see no names or indications of manufacture except for the the numbers 8 6 8 9 on the back in the upper right of the photo. D&B antiques, thank you for your input, can you tell me if you have seen a similar mirror, I believe you must have due to your suggestion of the origin, but I have two old camel back trunks, ( Mcginney or some similar manufacture) and the accents have a resemblance to the brass hangers on this mirror. Is there at all any chance in your opinion that is not american manufactured?? ALso to all, after watching Antiques road show, I have learned do not clean or alter the finish of your antiques. If the value is only several hundred dollars, would it be a great tragedy to strip the old finish to reveal the beautiful oak that lies underneath??
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I did discover the face is applied seperatley, thank you luxetveritas for the call on that one, The grain lines up beautifull but I did get my nail under a portion of it.
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Richardo, rule of thumb is do not refinish if you are going to sell it. Many, even majority, can decrease in value if not restored by a professional or person in the know. However, in many cases, clean up increases the value. In the case of damage or years of waxy buildup restoration can increase the value.
If you are going to keep it and want to refinish it...DO IT! It's yours and you should be happy with it!
To help D&b out with your questions, please post pics of the trunks 1) overall, 2) closeups, insides/sides/bottom. Any markings.
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Man, I just love everything about this mirror! I wish I could find something that cool. I big on victorian and turn of the century stuff.
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I did discover the face is applied seperatley, thank you luxetveritas for the call on that one, The grain lines up beautifull but I did get my nail under a portion of it.
Rich, if the grain "lines up" very much at all or "beautiful like" then the face is not applied. That is unless the "carving" was made out of the "other half" of the ripped board used for the frame.
I was thinking it may have been carved in relief because I enlarged your picture and could not see any "wee widdle nails" that were normally used to affix such filagree or "embossed carvings" on cabinetry, etc.
And my opinion, I think it would add to the $ value of your mirror if it was expertly refinished to a Golden Oak.
Primitives and "named maker" items are best left "untouched" depending. Depending on several criteria respective to the item in question. ;D
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Great info Cougar.
I have to be in friendly disagreement with all due respect on the issue of refinishing, unless that what floats the current owners boat.
IMO refinishing would take value away.
If I saw this item for sale 'as is' I would buy it without thinking twice.
On the other hand if it was refinished I wouldn't even consider it.
Just a difference of opinion or maybe taste I know, but at least if you sell it 'as is' the future buyer has the option to keep it original or paint it red, white, and blue if he wishes.
Once it's stripped there goes the history,look, and value IMO.
Can never go back to original status once it's messed with but you always have the option to refinish.
I love the honest light age on it and think it adds to the charm and given the season's theme I feel it enhances the overall look.
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I have to agree, I wouldn't touch a thing on this mirror. I think it's beautiful just the way it is, and that removing the original finish would remove a big piece of its history.
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This was to hang by the doorway to ward off evil. It seems to have worked well like it is....you may change the mojo by refinishing it! ;P
Let's start a chant. Don't refinish it...Don't refinish it....Don't refinish it................. ..
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Now when it comes to refinishing, ........ whatever turns your crank.
But when it comes to selling ........ you have to decide what your best market is.
And in all my years of "junk dealing" I have never met or ever heard of a "collector of mirrors". But now if any of you have, please enlighten me.
My experience has also taught me that people don't go to Antique shops, flea markets, garage sales, etc., specifically for the purpose of buying a mirror unless they are looking for a specific mirror frame (refinished or not, with or without the mirror in it) for a replacement for a missing or broken one for a piece of furniture they own.
Mirrors are "decorator items" and are mostly purchased on "spur-of-the-moment" decisions. And the better that mirror looks the better those potential buyers can visualize what it will look like hanging on a wall in their home or business.
Un-refinished, 5+-% of your customers will "look it over". Refinished, 80+-% of your customers will "look it over". People like to look at themselves in good looking mirrors, ya know. Especially the females. ;D ;D ;D
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Guess my area is very different and trendy....because mirrors sell. The best selling ones are the unfinished. They are searched for majority of the time.
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My region (Pacific Northwest , USA) is of the same temperment as KCs' .
Folks here like the original finish .
For example , last year I bought an original watercolor from an estate .... a fellow collector/dealer wanted to see it .
When I showed it to him , he had near-zero interest in the painting (worth +$30k) & offered me a very high price for it's original-finish frame (from Fredrick Loeser & Co. inc. , Brooklyn New York) .
I've known the guy for years & never knew he is/was a 'frame collector' !
Go figure , huh ?
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I, too, am from Washington state and I always prefer the original finish. Even if something is very inexpensive, I usually pass it up if they exclaim something along the lines of, "Recently refinished!" Or, "Restored to it's original beauty!" All comes down to personal preference in the end.
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When I showed it to him , he had near-zero interest in the painting (worth +$30k) & offered me a very high price for it's original-finish frame (from Fredrick Loeser & Co. inc. , Brooklyn New York) .
If you remember I stated in a previous post that "Primitives and "named maker" items are best left "untouched" …".
And I would like to add to my "soothsaying", ...... there are two (2) kinds of Dealers and two (2) kinds of customers ...... and nare the twain shall often meet.
Primarily, high buck buyers only buy from high buck dealers, it's a status thingy ya know. They get to brag about who they purchased it from as well as it still being in the original untouched state.
I knew the Keno twins when they were teenagers buying "marked" stoneware and they would buy from anyone. Their parents owned the only solid oak full-size bathtub I ever seen. But nowdays, I don't think I could sell them much of anything. ;D
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Well then, it sounds like if I keep it and the wife wants to use it, it needs to be refinished. I am leaning this way...Thank you everyone for your interest. It has been in my family since before I was born, I did discuss with my mother that if the value were in the thousands, I would sell it, but if it is only a few hundred dollars then it is worth more to me as a gift to be kept in the family.
To KC...if the faces were to ward off evil spirits, would it have been an american factory manufactured piece...in your opinion??
Cogar...I believe the face is carved from the other half, but as you say i haven't seen any nails but the whole board which the face sits on, is smooth which to me means that the face is seperate...there is no surface uneveness of the surface of the frame, it all feels smooth right to the edge of the face and into the nooks and crannies. This would indicate a seperatly applied piece-would it not? Then again I am not a professional by no means.
Is it worth taking any parts I can apart and look for some name or something???
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I really would like all of you to know that I appreciate all your advice and opinions. I have had questions on this piece for decades... I live in Alaska and there are darn few antique dealers unless you are interested in gold pans or gold dredge buckets!!!
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richardo21 ..... you can check the 'carved' areas for nails with a strong magnet .... it's sometimes hard to spot nail-heads when they may have been covered over by finishes/fillers/etc . ...
sadly , this does not work for brass brads .
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As D&b stated previously in the post, I do believe made in USA BUT by foreign artisans.
The faces were originally used in Europe. Although people fled to America to start a new life, they looked to Europe for style/design/trends, etc.