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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: Inkslinger on June 19, 2010, 10:46:58 pm
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Hey Everyone,
I just picked this up at a thrift store for $35 and have no idea where the heck this is from or if it is old or new or what. It weighs approx 35-40 lbs and is 21 1/4" H and 11 1/2" W at base. It features 6 faces all around the base that have black painted head dresses. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Would just to know if anyone has any insight regarding it's provenance. Thank you everyone.
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I'm thinking a folkart-type piece? Maybe someone's ceramic project? :)
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Is there any markings on the bottom of it?
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The faces look ancient Egyptian, like Bes, the god who aids women during childbirth and is the protector of children. The painting of the crown is a little strange and the ears are a bit reminiscent of Hathor, the cow goddess of love. Bes usually has a beard too, but this still so strongly resembles him, that I think it is very much worth looking into. The protruding tongue is very typical of Bes and the face has the classic look of him.
It has been illegal to transport Egyptian antiquitites out of Egypt since about the turn of the century. But prior to that, tons of antiquities came over as souvenier pieces. I'm not sure if yours could be the real deal or not. Most often, a large vessel like this would have been an offering jar that would have been smashed at a temple after the offering was made. However, it could have survived if it was a vessel that was in a tomb, as most of the antiquities around were.
I suspect this will turn out to be a repro but if it were mine, I'd contact an expert in Egyptian antiquitites. I can give you the contact of the curator of the Rosecrutian Egyptian Museum here in San Jose CA which has an extensive collection. I think she could at least tell you if this vessel should be examined in person or if I am completely off-base with this.
This is Bes:
(http://i.livescience.com/images/051228_bes_02.jpg)
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Wouldn't that be crazy if it was ancient and it was sittin' in a thrift store? Would a picture of the bottom be helpful in dating?
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Yes it would be crazy. But weirder things have happened. Our Egyptian Museum purchased a pair of "his and hers" mummy cases from the Nieman Marcus Catalog in the early 70's. When it was being exported from England, the shipping company called and said there was something rattling around in one of the crates. The museum said don't move it, we're sending someone out. They opened it up and inside was the mummified remains of a high priest by the name of Usermontu. The guy selling the coffins through Neiman Marcus was apparently a bit of a prankster who would prop up User and frighten his house guests! Usermontu is now one of the museum's' most prominent "residents". When he was x-ray'd they found that he has a unique corkscrew pin that was used to reattach his leg (post-mortem) and it is the only one known like this.
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That's SO interesting, Tales! How cool! Surprising, as well, considering a fully preserved mummy would bring far more at auction than simply the coffins.
As far as the pot, the face seems to have more oriental features than Egyptian, although the hat is definitely not Asian from what I can tell. The craftsmanship is also much different than an Egyptian or Chinese counterpart. I'm still thinking this was just someone's ceramics project- are there any initials?
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Looking at it again, it really does look Chinese/oriental in the faces. Any pictures of the bottom would be great so we could have a better idea of the entire piece.
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Here's another of Bes without the eyes hacked out:
(http://www.kemet.org/ntjr/bes.gif)
And one of Hathor, note the ears and the style of the head. Very typical of Egyptian monuments to her. But the tongue and other features are Bes-like. A lot of times you do see these hybrid representations of a god or goddess where they have attributes reminiscent of another god or goddess. Makes sence to combine attributes of Hathor (love, beauty, motherhood) with Bes (childbearing, protector of children).
As mentioned it could be just an art project, an Egyptian revival piece or who knows. But it's crude enough that it makes me wonder if it could be an offering jar. What the heck, might as well look into it with a few emails. There would be no markings on it if it is. They were made for smashing after the offering was made.
(http://peggyblack.com/images/HathorHorLg.jpg)
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Tales, the breadth of your knowledge on any number of venues just amazes me. I just find it extremely fascinating and informative whenever I read your posts even if I have no interest in the subject. There are some other posters on the same level. The ancient information is just wonderful.
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Thank you so much guys for all of the responses!! I really appreciate it. There aren't any markings on the bottom from what I could find. Here are some pictures of the base.
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It is interesting that there is glaze on the base of the piece. I wonder if it covered up the artist's initials.
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It's to bad for the black paint on the hats. That looks like it was painted recently, the blue paint looks older.
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I wish I could comment....but there is so much faux painting out there.....I personally cannot tell from this pic.....agree that the black is more pronounced and appears
"newer".
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It is more pronounced, and crude, but that too is very typical of the blue Egyptian faience pieces. They were mass produced in their time and there was a whole cottage industry surrounding cult worship. They would produce these vessels by the gazillions and sell them to the people making their pilgrimages to the various temples. They also did tons of ushabti figures in the blue faience. These were little statues that were buried with you to do your work for you in the afterlife so that you didn't have to. The deceased had to have 365 of these ushabti figures, one for every day of the year. It was a marketing opportunity if ever there was one!
Here's a couple of examples of Egyptian blue faience vessels with the black painting on them:
(http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/LargeImage.aspx?image=/lotfinderimages/d42052/d4205236x.jpg)
(http://www.dcancientart.com/prodimages/High/Egyptian/EF803_2.jpg)
And here's an ushabti in the same classic blue faience with black paint. Again, mass-produced in ancient Egypt so the painting is very amaturish, but none the less 100% authentic:
(http://www.hixenbaugh.net/images/gallery/lrg/3282a-l.jpg)
I too will be surprised if the real McCoy could end up in a thrift store with a $35 price tag. But stranger things have happened and this really does have all the classic earmarks of an ancient Egyptian offering vessel. It will probably turn out to be a repro, but it's close enough that if it were mine, I'd get it looked at. I gave Inkslinger the contact info for the Rosecrucian Egyptian Museum and the name of the curator.
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O.k. I have to put my penny in here, been wanting to but kinda have gain a distaste for Crow. I don't see Egyptian influence here, Maybe a bit based on the shape of the face. But Kinda has a Celtic look about the hat, or maybe Sumerian kind of influnce about it, just does not look Egyptain to me. As for age I would not try and guess at all, It does appear old, but not so sure about the blue color, something about that color seem a bit modern, but it overall really looks old. I think you have a real prize here, just from the unique aspect of the item.
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Okay, hey all! I showed a picture of this piece to my cousin who is an archaeologist (currently working in Ukraine, but he has been to the Middle East on a number of occasions, and once to Egypt while getting his doctorate). Anyway, he believes the piece might be Egyptian revival, but he doesn't think it was made in Egypt to sell to tourists (like most reproductions coming out of the country are), and he doesn't think the work is ancient.
That's just one opinion, and as always, treat it with a grain of salt. The best thing to do would be to contact the museum Tales gave you the info for. I might also add that if this was an authentic piece I do not believe it would be so bulbous in places- even if they were mass produced.
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Inkslinger, if it turns out to be Egyptian Revival, that would mean your piece would date to approximately the 1920's-ish. When King Tut's tomb was discovered in 1922, Egyptian motifs became very popular. You might also try contacting the Smithsonian in New York City. They also have an extensive Egyptian collection.
Lux I agree completely with your cousin, that it does not look like the tourist pieces they make now. It is intriguing, that is for sure! How cool that your cousin is an archaeologist!
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Hey Tales, he actually works mainly in ocean archaeology (especially sunken architecture), but he works "on land" as well. Kind of interesting, we didn't know each well until about six months ago when we reconnected at my grandmother's funeral. He's a really interesting guy, I might "rope" him into this forum sometime if I can ;)
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Rope 'im in! Although he's probably pretty busy. I always told myself I'd be an archaeologist. But here I am doin' nothin' towards it. :/
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I had such similar ambitions, Hosman. I guess that's life though- you never really know where you are gonna end up ;)
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Me three, although I was never serious about the idea because the pay scale can be so low. But I did volunteer as a drafter mapping an archaeologial site in Arizona and loved it. Below is a photo of me working on the drawings, on my knees in the dirt! I transfered them into AutoCAD at the end of the session. I wrote about the experience posted dig photos here: http://www.archaeologica.org/RoundyCrossing.htm (http://www.archaeologica.org/RoundyCrossing.htm)
(http://www.archaeologica.org/HathorDrafting.JPG)
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Thanks again everyone for the responses and trying to help me figure this out ;)! luxetveritas, I appreciate you forwarding the pics to your cousin for analysis!! Very, very cool. I'm still holding out for someone on here to tell me that it's ancient and worth MILLIONS!! Haha just kidding guys. I think it's a darn unique piece and if it's a revival or repro, still a fantastico pickup at a thrift store. I emailed the museum Tales provided...no response yet. I'll also email the Smithsonian and other museums as well. I'll keep everyone posted with any responses.
Just want to get a consensus from everyone...is this piece Egyptian or have an Egyptian motif rather than asian or something else? Trying to narrow it down.
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I'm curious to know if you can tell if your item is heat-glazed (both the blue & black areas) , or perhaps finished in another way .
When you mentioned the 'black' being 'painted' ... sorry , I can't tell much from your images , Inkslinger ....
just trying to clarify how your item was glazed/painted .
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I am not an expert and I could be wrong, but I feel quite comfortable saying that at least the motif is in the style of ancient Egypt.
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From the Museo de Antropologia de Xalapa , Mexico :
:)
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great find Sara! I've been researching Mexican indio tribes as well. Thanks for sharing that.
Also, regularjoe...I am really a novice of novice's when it comes to "glazing" or as to how this piece was made. Sorry. I'm researching that as well.
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Sending pic on to cousin who is retired in archaelogy/geology! Not his specialty...but he may have an idea.
I'm leaning more towards S American/Peru.....