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Antiques! => EBay Forum => Topic started by: hosman321 on February 23, 2011, 05:41:23 pm
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Ok, I'm a little infuriated. I bought these sheets on ebay. Tracking number says they were delivered on Friday. We were home all day Friday and it did not come here, I know that much. FINALLY got ahold of the post office today and they said, "If it says it was delivered, then it was delivered." I told them we just got a new girl a few days before. The first package she brought us, she didn't even know what she was doing or how to scan it and was really confused. I asked if she possibly brought it back to the post office or delivered it to the wrong house. He said, "No, not likely." Pretty much not willling to accept that she could have screwed up, which my post office has done about 20 times. Who is responsible for this lost package? I know I am not. Just because it didn't have insurance doesn't mean I am going to eat $90.00. Suggestions?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rt=nc&nma=true&item=300518362130&si=cwgtvqOmS7zeG7E%252Febp7koPohzs%253D&viewitem=
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I think you can still file a claim with the post office even if you did not have insurance. The seller is not responsible, the post office is. You'll have to go down in person and fill out a claim form. Be sure you print out the tracking info and bring it with you. Let us know how this goes.
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http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/609.htm (http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/609.htm)
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Hosman, you need to talk to the carrier supervisor in charge of your route. You may need to go down to the PO to do this rather than over the phone. The supervisor needs to find out what carrier was on your route on the day it was "delivered" and talk to that carrier. Be persistent and if you have to, be a pest. Filing a claim on a package without insurance will not get you any indemnity. I worked for the USPS for 31 1/2 yrs and did insurance claims for about 6. If you need to, PM me. I would like to see the tracking info.
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I hate to say it but the seller may have to refund you per eBay policy - and rightly so to a degree. If you ordered from Nordstrom's and didn't get it... Just the cost of doing business. No matter what, I would email the seller ASAP and let them know what happened AND that you may need their help with the PO. If it get's resolved GREAT... If not, you've included them in the process and they know it's coming.
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I hate to say it but the seller may have to refund you per eBay policy - and rightly so to a degree.
I think it would be wrong to expect the seller to be out the sheets and the money too on someone else's error.
They don't have big money or buying power behind them like a big name like Nordstroms. And out of that money your seller paid for sheets,PayPal, & selling fees to boot.
If you dispute it with PayPal the first thing they will do is look at the delivery confirmation that shows it was delivered. Why should an innocent party, you or the seller, take a hit? Why not put the blame where the blame belongs??
Is there a possibility the package was left with or delivered wrongly to a neighbor or maybe tucked away in a obscure spot? Did you by chance confront your 'new girl' carrier about this?
Really stinks to go through all this frustration for packages but I think we've all been there more than once.
Then going to the post office for some answers and having them treat you like the bad guy adds insult to injury
Hope it all works out with minimal aggravation and hassle.
I would suggest posting your situation on eBays Seller Central forum and seeing what they have to say about it.
I have read that on occasion Paypal will foot the bill (hopefully not your seller) when buyer or seller is not at fault.GL
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Thank you all for your input and suggestions. We are going into the post office on Friday to talk to them. In my opinion it is not my fault nor the seller's. It's the post office's fault because something happened while in their care.
I watched a court show (Judge Judy) a few weeks ago and the same thing happened with an eBay transaction. I know she doesn't know everything but she made the seller refund the money. She said that by law, the seller is responsible for that package until it is in the buyer's hands. If the buyer doesn't receive it, it is up to the seller to refund the money. The seller can then go take it up with the post office but it's not the buyer's responsibility to figure it out. In her theory, I had a contract to pay for an item. The seller's part of our contract was to assure I receive that item. Not just that they ship it out, but that I receive it. I did not have a contract with the post office. Doesn't make sense and is not fair at all but sometimes sellers take that chance and take the hit. I'll let ya'll know what happens. If it was delivered to the wrong address, I bet an untrustworthy person kept those nice sheets. Seems like they would have given the package back the next day. :-\
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Gotta love Judge Judy always telling it like it is and rippin someone a new one.
Guess I can see the logic but still makes someone at fault have none of the responsibility and those who are not to blame pay for it all.Fits right in with how our American system is run.
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Amen Dean. Then again, since I paid money to the post office for a service, don't they have to fully carry out that service? Isn't that kind of a contract? Confusing. Lesson to self: pay for insurance every time.
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I agree with hosman's point on delivery. Her contract is with the seller. The seller contracted with the USPS (the third party carrier) to deliver the package to hosman. The third party carrier did not deliver properly. The seller owes hosman and the seller needs to take this up with the third party carrier. It does not matter if the seller is out for the cost of the goods, fees, etc. That is a hazard we all accept when we "hire" a third party to deliver our goods and the third party does not complete their part of the deal. Purchasing insurance with the third party carrier would cover this loss to the sender.
If the item was insured (which it was not), by USPS rules, the seller/sender is paid and not the addressee unless the sender signs off and agrees that the addressee be paid for the insurance claim. So by USPS' default, their delivery contract is with the party hiring them (the seller/sender). Hosman did not hire the third party carrier, the seller/sender did. Judgement in favor of hosman.
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Guess PayPal will decide that.
Maybe shows how the unions really are a bad idea for America if this is the kind of work they do (not).
Paid for a service, then expect others to cover their behinds when they drop the ball.
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I agree wayward.
If I order a sofa from Walmart and it does not arrive on delivery day, I am not going to jump through hoops and be the one to contact the shipping company. That would be Walmart's problem. If it gets lost with their shipping company, I am not going to ask for my money back from the shipper, I am going to get my refund from Walmart. They'd sure hear a mouthfull if they told me to deal with the problem myself. Just makes sense...
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RE Seller responsibility, I don't think it's necessarily "fair" but I do think it's the way it works. Either way, I think you should let the seller know what's going on so they aren't blindsided by this. There maybe something they can do on their end or at least start researching their options.
At the very least, they wont spend the $$...
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I pack all my items extremely well and include a packing slip inside. On expensive items, I pay for insurance. I consider it my responsibility to do this for the buyer. I also do not consider a deal done until it is in the hands of the buyer and they are satisfied with everything. I pay for Delivery Confirmation for all shipments except expensive items which may go Registered or Signature Confirmation. The one thing to remember about Delivery Confirmation is, it does not give any information on where it was delivered. If the carrier makes an error and delivers it to the wrong address or leaves it on the door stoop and it is stolen, the buyer still does not have the item they paid for. My contract is with the buyer to deliver what they paid for. If I do not, I must refund the buyer their cost. I realize this and I take a risk when I contract with a third party to deliver the item and I do not purchase insurance to protect this risk. On any item valued over $250, PayPal REQUIRES Signature Confirmation or the sender has no recourse if the buyer claims they did not receive it. You can use Delivery Confirmation but PayPal will still take the buyers side. I assume most people are honest and hope for the best. This is a hobby for me and if I get burned too much, I will simply quit selling.
As a side note, I had a fishing tackle collector friend that did not receive an insured parcel with Del. Conf. and filed a claim with the PO. The PO claimed because the Del. Conf. showed it was delivered, they were clear of any responsibility. Wrong. I counseled him on how to pursue this and to be persistent because Del. Con. does not show delivery to the addressee, only that it was delivered...somewhe re. He won his insurance claim.
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I wish that all sellers were as conscientious as you, Wayward, and probably as most of us are. My wife has been looking for an old sewing box for some time, but we've never seen a nice one (or any to think of it) when we've strolled around the Antique Centres.
I saw one on ebay last weekend which seemed to tick all the boxes. It was collect only. I contacted the buyer and asked whether he would post it out if I paid carriage, the norm for boxes seemed to be £10. He said he would, but £15 would be nearer the cost. I agreed as I thought that if the listing stated 'pick up only' then it would put off an awful lot of bidders, so it would be a case of swings and roundabouts.
I won it for £19, probably half of what it could have gone for, so I was happy. I paid for the item via Paypal, and then had to pay for the carriage separately again via Paypal.
It arrived today, which was pretty impressive, unfortunately in a potato crisp carton, wrapped in an old curtain. Just take a look at the photo! All four legs broken off!!!!!
I've contacted the seller, and just waiting for a response :(
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Wow M - That is a bummer! Is there any way to salvage it?
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Hi Oceans... Almost the word that sprang to my lips when I opened the package ;D
It could be, but it would have to be done by someone with a lot more skill than I possess. I'm handy at BIG constructions about the house and garden, but not too hot on intricate work :(
The seller seems a really nice person, so we're going to try to get the Royal Mail to cough up ... could be a long campaign!
What makes it such a shame is that it apparently belonged to the seller's mother, now passed on, so they're upset .. and I'm sure my wife would have loved it (it's now hiding in the shed a it would really upset her, more than it has me!)
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That is a real bummer, mario! Royal Mail must be as rough as USPS and airline baggage handlers.
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I'm handy at BIG constructions about the house and garden, but not too hot on intricate work :(
I hear you! Small projects are more a lesson of restraint in vocalizing 4 letter words than one in fine craftsmanship - For me anyway.
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Oh NOOOO!!! :'( Although with all the successful Eastlake repairs, maybe there is something that could be done?
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What a shame Mario! :(
The post office has been giving us the run around for days. They said they would talk to the carrier but they haven't yet. I'm the impatient type and I'm not going to wait around for weeks. So, I politely wrote the seller and told them it's not their fault or mine. But that I do need to open a dispute to get the money back so I can purchase the sheets again. (Other sellers have the same ones) This was the response I got. Are they correct? Our new bed comes tomorrow and I wanted these exact sheets. :-\
Since the Delivery Confirmation shows that the package was delivered to your address, I am required to complete a Lost Mail Form with the USPS.The Postal Form that I will submit on monday includes your Name, Address, and Telephone Number. You may be contacted by a Postal Inspector within the next few days. If you should find the package, please contact me immediately, and I will notify the Post Office that the package has been located.
Should the package not turn up, the Post Office may consider it to be stolen mail, and will investigate accordingly.
Please be prepared to speak with the Postal Inspector if they call, so that we can resolve this matter quickly.
If the package is not located, you can always file a Paypal dispute to get your money back.
Again, I am sorry for the inconvenience.
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I sympathise with your position, Hosman, I've only ever opened a dispute once, as a buyer, before the new ebay rules, and ended up being fleeced by ebay as well as the seller.
I feel for the seller in my case, not only for the reasons already mentioned, but can you imagine just how Royal Mail must have abused that package to actually break off all four legs from what was (I imagine) a very sturdy oak box ::) ::)
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Hosman read this: http://reviews.ebay.com/Filing-a-Dispute-Claim-with-PayPal-for-an-eBay-auction_W0QQugidZ10000000004225897
If you open a dispute today, there is still a 20 day communications window. You are in a rock and hard spot here. If you file today, you wait. If you work with the seller, you may get $ returned sooner as they probably DO NOT want a dispute not the negative feedback you will leave.
Either way it's tough - I'd probably work with the seller on this one. Hitting the PO from both sides may help but Wayward probably has more thoughts on that...
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Since the Delivery Confirmation shows that the package was delivered to your address, I am required to complete a Lost Mail Form with the USPS.
Del. Con. shows the item was delivered but it does not show the item was delivered to your address. The lost mail form the seller is talking about does not do much. It does go to the inspection dept. but that is about it. They keep track if there is an abnormal amount of packages constantly being "lost" to one address or some other anomaly. The rest of the stuff they tell you is to pacify you and make you feel good as you walk out the door. The lost mail form is basically a joke and they know it. I filled out hundreds of those for customers.
I would be a constant pest with the Delivery Supervisor at your PO and even talk to the Postmaster if the Del. Supervisor is of no help. They hate to see the same people come back again and again so they will find out what happened to your parcel.
Get a phone number for the USPS Consumer Affairs for your area and file a complaint with them. Your post office will get a phone call immediately asking about your claim.
There was no insurance so the seller does have to produce what you bought or give you your money back. PayPal will refund your money. I am not sure of the timeframes here.
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I'll call eBay and Paypal on Monday. I can't do anything online because it says, "Your item has already been delivered" and won't let me choose any other options. This is just plain frustrating. If all else fails, I will contact my bank and tell them I paid for and item and never received it. They should give me my money back. On the resolution page, it says that a seller will probablywin their claim if the tracking info says, "Delivered." Guess I'll just have to talk to them. Helping my mom move tomorrow and picking up the new bed so will be very busy until night time. :-\
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/buyer-protection.html#exclusions
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After promising and promising to talk to the carrier for days, the post office finally called us back. She said that the carrier swears up and down that they left the package at our front door. She says the carrier also left a paper in the crack of our door yesterday with her name and number. Again, yesterday I was here all day and there was no paper in the crack of the door. I looked all over outside and inside the house and it didn't fall off. She is clearly going to the wrong address. ::)
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Catch her at your door and ask her what house she left it at !! That should tell you that she can`t tell what the house numbers are and left it at the wrong house !!
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Yeah, I would wait for her and ask her what house she left it at. Clearly she is going to the wrong house or lying. Inexcusable in my opinion.
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Ohh I'm so irritated. I just happened to open the door to let the cat in and saw her at the end of the street. So, I throw on my jacket, walk out in the pouring rain and crazy wild wind to walk up to her car and she drove around me and left! I was clearly walking up to her and we even smiled at each other when I got to the car (next to my mailbox by then). I couldn't believe it when she just drove off. Either this new girl is scared because she lost a package or she is an outright liar and took it. Or, she had no clue who I was and thought I was just checking my mail. Who knows. Ugh. When my husband called the lady said the carrier described the house where she left the package as "kind of a cream-ish color." Well, it's bright white. I don't know. I give up with them.
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I would tell them she needs to come to your door and knock... Tie a balloon to it or something so she knows she is at the right house. We have issues with ours chronically putting mail in the wrong boxes but those are all in a row... This is ridiculous!
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Sounds like you need a house number post with a golden sphere on top of it! ;D Seriously though, are you getting the rest of your mail? If so, she's got to know which house you are, unless the mail boxes are separate from the physical homes. I'm guessing that maybe the problem. Maybe you should mail yourself an empty box that requires a signature. See where she takes it and who signed for it or if your signature is being forged.
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Not a bad idea !!
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Oh what a relief. A man just brought me my sheets and my husband's extremely expensive prescription shoe inserts. She has been delivering our stuff to his house. What a nice guy he was! That post office is going to hear it good, I knew they weren't delivered to me!
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Hallelujah! The carrier's supervisor needs to know about this and pronto! What else is the carrier delivering and where??
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Thank goodness!! Send us pics of your "made" bed!! ;D
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Mystery is solved! Now to make sure it doesn't happen to you (or anyone else) again. You should sleep well tonight ;)
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Kudos to your neighbor for being an honest guy and bringing them to you! Glad this is resolved. A complaint is definitely in order so that the problem can be corrected.
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Glad to hear that your little difficulty has been resolved, Hosman. It begs the questions as to how and why so many people who are trusted with the responsibility of the safe passage of our belongings so frequently get it so badly wrong?
I've posted off my claim for the damaged sewing box, but don't expect a resolution for about 12 -16 weeks, that is about the average over here, if you provide all the information required up front (there are that many claims being made!). They really do need to make the claim forms a little more user friendly. I think I am an intelligent person but I had to rethink a couple of the questions. However, if so many people didn't make errors, and have their claims put on hold then it's possible that claims could take even longer for those who get it right first time ... if that makes sense? :-\ :-\ :-\
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I often think forms are meant to discourage people from completing them. Rebates are a prime example. If the rebate form isn't completed and sent in with the proper documentation, the company does not give the rebate but they have still sold the product.
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So true Wayward.... And if you're like me, much of the decision to buy it was made b/c of the rebate!
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I really hope I'm not going through this mess again. It's beyond frustrating. I ordered another 1700's textile. It was shipped out Thursday (Priority) with insurance and a signature required. Not here yet, sitting by the door for hours again. I've never had priority take more than 3 days. They did have a big snowstorm in the seller's area, so I am hoping that is the reason. Wish me luck. Ugh.
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Hosman, if you have the number you can check online when it is out for delivery, which would mean that specific day. I do this when I have packages coming so I know when to be home.
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Yeah, that's another issue. I told the seller before she shipped it to have a TRACKING number, signature required and insurance because I was so worried. After she shipped it out, she said "it doesn't have a tracking number because it is usps, not ups." She has been selling on ebay for nearly 10 years and she doesn't know that you can put a tracking number on a usps package? ??? I thought that if you get insurance, it has to have a tracking number, otherwise how will they know what the heck happens to the package? But now that I think of it, the last package she sent had a green "insured" sticker but I didn't see a tracking number... She's been an amazing seller, up until she said that.
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Insurance does have a number but you cannot look it up...only the post office can on their service network. If it is $200 or less, no signature is required. If it is $201 or more, then a signature is required. I cannot believe the sender does not know about Delivery Confirmation or Signature Confirmation. The clerk at the post office asks if you want that service all the time. Fingers crossed. There are no green insured stickers. Certified is kelly green, Del. Con. is bright green, Sig. Con. is bright pink, insured under 200 is black, and over 200 is blue if they use USPS forms. If they do it through PayPal or Shipping Assistant then there are no colors. I have been retired for 2 yrs so I am going from memory.
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She isn't printing postage via Paypal? They automatically send the tracking number to the buyer and available to the seller in any number of views. Maybe there is a better way for volume sellers but I sure find it convenient as both a buyer and a (sometimes) seller...
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Crisis averted, it came today. ;) Package was really beat up, maybe it got lost somewhere for a few days. My favorite man carrier brought it. For the first few years we lived here, he was the only carrier that would bring packages to us. All the others would just keep driving past our house and take them back to the post office. Now that was frustrating. Especially since pick up times at our post office are between 6am and 7am only. I would have to fight with the post office just to get my packages. I really need to write him a good review.
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I'm ready to scream. All of the calls and complaints and talking to supervisors still hasn't worked. A very important package ($90.00 worth of supplements for my new Bengal cat) was not delivered to me today but the tracking number says it was. I absolutely have to have them before the cat gets here. How is an address so hard to read? Especially if you have been told several times that you are delivering to the wrong house. This girl needs to lose her job, she is clearly incompetent with carrying people's important packages. I hope it went to the same man again, but I am sure he is tired of delivering packages and not getting paid for it. This is the fourth package. Sorry for the rant, but in her job, mistakes are more important than other jobs. >:(
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Hosman, this now deserves a call to your Postmaster or a personal visit to your Postmaster. Skip the supervisors because they are not correcting anything. This is just absolutely ridiculous.
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I agree. Time to get tough. There's no excuse at this point.
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Do you know the name of the carrier who actually knows where you live and has delivered to you? You could ask the postmaster WHY he doesn't seem to have a problem finding you and delivering your parcels into correct hands, where as the clueless wonder appears not to be able to even find her own a$$ with both hands.
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Oh my gosh, my husband called them and they didn't even care. They keep acting like we are being pests when we ask what is happening. The man carrier is so nice and finds us just fine. It's not like we are difficult to find. We aren't out in the woods or anything. It's just that new girl. I'm going to email usps tonight. It's frustrating when they treat us like we are the ones who are wrong. >:(
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Hosman, have you called this number 1-800-275-8777 (open until 8:30 PM ET M-F) and filed a complaint with USPS Consumer Affairs? I am sure there are voice prompts but you will get a live person on the phone during weekday hours and also Sat and Sun but not sure of the hours. Post Offices hate (and I mean hate) to get a call from USPS Consumer Affairs because then they do have to follow up on the problem ( I had to do some explaining when I worked there to clear up some complaints). I am not sure if email will work but it may.
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Ok, maybe someone can explain this to me because I am confused. After complaining about that package, I clicked on the tracking number again later in the day and everything was changed. When it started out, it was a usps package that said it was delivered to me. Then, it was a fedex package. I received it, now it says it was both? Do fedex and usps work together? How did the info change?
I'm guessing someone went in manually and changed it? I have received fedex here plenty of times, so they do deliver to me.
Tracking number
9102927000778301119 881
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It appears it was a drop shipment (you say Fedex) to the Post Office that arrived on April 2 and then they sent it out for delivery. Package Services is parcel post or something other than Priority/First Class. Both Fedex and UPS drop packages to the USPS and then the USPS completes delivery. Quite common.
Fedex also has the air contract for USPS Priority mail because they have the planes, the space, and they won the bid. The only problem is if the Fedex plane is full of Fedex cargo then the USPS stuff is bumped to another less loaded plane, delaying delivery.
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Guess PayPal will decide that.
Maybe shows how the unions really are a bad idea for America if this is the kind of work they do (not).
Paid for a service, then expect others to cover their behinds when they drop the ball.
Id say its more of an example of how replacing experienced workers with cheaper novices does not always pay off.
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And it is only going to get worse as more Boomers retire because the knowledge and experience goes with them.