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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: talesofthesevenseas on May 19, 2011, 12:38:31 pm
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I just won this neat iron "whatzit" that I believe is a pie lifter, designed for pulling a pie dish out of a hot oven. It says "PAT'D MAY 10 1875" in the dark, closeup photos, but so far I've been unable to locate it by searching for the patent issue date. Maybe someone else can help find the patent?
In the seller's photos it looks like they have it upside down, that the holding handles should curve downward, not upward. This would position the straight bars supporting the underside of the pie plate and the curved bars cradling the sides of the pie dish. I think they are right, that this iss it's primary purpose. The hooks that curve in the opposite direction from the handles look very much like those on hearth trivets that are designed to hook onto the front of a hearth (can't think of the name of the thing that stops logs from rolling out of the front of the fireplace) and allows you to keep things warm, so I suspect that this lifter has at least two purposes, maybe more. Here are the photos and a link to the auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=170640154502&si=tXs%252B9%252BB7EGQm6YvtH6rrHAytOE8%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p4340.l2557&rt=nc&nma=true&item=170640154502&si=tXs%252B9%252BB7EGQm6YvtH6rrHAytOE8%253D&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT)
(http://www.sover.net/~a50505/pie1.jpg)
(http://www.sover.net/~a50505/pie2.jpg)
(http://www.sover.net/~a50505/pie3.jpg)
(http://www.sover.net/~a50505/pie4.jpg)
(http://www.sover.net/~a50505/pie5.jpg)
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Very cool little do-dad , talesof !
( I think 'andirons' is the term you're brain-scanning for)
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Andirons are the uprights, and it is not the grate which holds the logs, but the "fence" at the mouth of the hearth. Like the one in this drawing:
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DJkhkrERCss/TOR3hN1HC1I/AAAAAAAAAWw/Kgz1Bt6ZntE/s1600/NPride_Cricket-Hearth.jpg)
Here's a hanging hearth trivet although this one goes over the fireplace "fence" and mine looks like it would poke through the holes in the fence, or maybe it would be for cooling on a window sill or other ledge. I'm not sure, which is why I am hoping we can locate the original patent.
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Odd little critter isn`t it ?? I have never seen one before !! But I hesitate to say its a pie lifter !! You would think the handle would be longer for that and shaped differently !!
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It could be something else who knows! It looks to me like it would work for lifting a pie dish and I'll give it a try as soon as i get it. If you had the pie too far from your hand it would be heavier the further out it gets. Some pies like apple pies or meat pies can be very heavy, especially in a deep dish. This does look different from other pie lifters I've seen that are like large, wooden handled pronged forks. This is too big to be for lifting hot canning jars like some other lifters I'll be really interested to see if we can track down a patent. Wayward is really good at that and I can't seem to find this one.
The hearth fence is called a fender. That's the word I was looking for.
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/sc-image/4/2/3/5/42358a269ee2fc55e1f0ad1441dbc3ca.jpg)
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Yup , fender is the term (but sometimes called an 'apron' by some ... usually the apron is a front piece on a andiron/grate combo-deal thingie) .
Ya beat me to it .
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Antique canning jar lifters:
(http://ny-image1.etsy.com/il_570xN.202325753.jpg)
(http://ny-image0.etsy.com/il_570xN.238457984.jpg)
Pie lifter:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/22/!B,80,u!CGk~$(KGrHgoOKjYEjlLmZ5C3BKttnPWvYw~~_3.JPG)
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Tales, are you 100% sure that it is marked "Pat'D May 10 1875"? I cannot read the photos and that date appears to be no good. Maybe a pencil rubbing or a loupe would help read the letters/numbers.
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I don't have it in-hand yet, I'm having to go off what the seller said. They did say it was hard to read, so it may quite likely be incorrect. I've tried adjusting the two photos but they aren't showing much. Maybe a rubbing will help when it arrives.
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and the other...
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Totally unreadable to me. I think it says something other than May 10, 1875. When I have time I will try Mar, May, 10, 18, 19, and some different years.
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I think you are right, none of the things patented on May 10 1875 look like this. I tried running searches for a pie lifter and went through some of the ones made in the 1800's but didn't find this one. (some pretty interesting contraptions though!) Wayward, don't spend too much time searching until I get it home and can try to decipher the date. I hope I'll be able to get a better fix on it in person.
...and of course I'm going to try lifting a pie with it too, to see what happens!
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Tales, I would not need one of those. I just lifted a piece of apple pie with a fork. Worked real good too. ;D
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LOL yeah, it's a lot of iron just to replace a couple of pot holders, but I thought it was cool nonetheless!
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I am not so sure it is a pie lifter. Just seems odd for that purpose.
With the curved handles down as you suggest, I think this would be very unwieldy and unstable if lifting something. The one photo you have that shows the two curved ends locked together appears to be a stove lid lifter. The hinged end with that long end out there makes no sense, unless that end fits into a hole or fitting so the "lifter" rotates on that hinged point. I see no reason for the hinge to be extended out so far. It would be in the way of any and everything, especially the back of a fireplace. It would be nice to have a clear patent date. I did search all of 1875 with restrictions (incl. lifter, stove implement, etc.) with no results even close. I also searched Mar-May 1876 with same results. Another conundrum.
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Well, all I can say is, lets hope I can see the patent date when it arrives, or this whatzit may end up tossed in our bin of unsolved mystery items!
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What I can't get my head round are those first two photos. Has the orientation of one of those knobbly arms in the second completely done a 180? Maybe just my eyes .. or brain! ;D
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That is a swivel joint where the 2 arms connect.
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The image of the item totally closed. This view may answer some questions or maybe not.
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Well, something to ponder is the form. Since it appears to be a lifter of something, it would have to be a flat-bottomed circular object, because the straight bars will go beneath it and the curved arms would cradle the sides. At least the way that I am seeing it. I would flip it over from the orientation that the seller has here:
(http://www.sover.net/~a50505/pie2.jpg)
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I wonder if it could be to lift an antique iron humidifier like this:
(http://www.antiquesnavigator.com/ebay/images/2010/120658892053.jpg)
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Since there are handles on the humidifier,, why would you need a lifter ?? I would just grab a couple of potholders !! I don`t know but something makes me think livestock !!
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While not exactly the same as yours Tales, it's certainly along the same line.....
http://www.bracesinfo.com/store/RARE-ANTIQUE-PIE-LIFTER-220744692753.html
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From Worthpoint, listed in 2007.......
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-iron-hinged-pie-lifter-dated-may-18
Others listed on Worthpoint. (I think yours may be the third one ? )
http://www.worthpoint.com/inventory/search?query=antique++iron+pie++lifter
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Check out the description of #462
http://www.faglon.com/kitchen.htm
"Pie lifter, steel wire double lifting arms with wire handle & gauge for adjusting the size of the lifter, late 1800s"
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I'm on my mobile and could only see the one with the patent date but will look at them asap. The patented one is very close and the date is so close to the patent date of mine I wonder if they may have been produced by the same maker and maybe we can find it with a may 18 1875 date. It is only one digit off from may 10 1875 and the seller may have mistaken an 8 for a zero.
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I found the patent!! The patent date is March 18 1875. It is a multi-use plate/vessel lifting tool, which also doubles as a stove lid lifter:
http://www.google.com/patents?id=kP9CAAAAEBAJ&printsec=drawing&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://www.google.com/patents?id=kP9CAAAAEBAJ&printsec=drawing&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false)
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I should add that mine seems to be a later incarnation with the addition of the hooks, but I think this definitely defines its purpose.
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Good going on finding this patent! If you read it, it does cover hooks and it does cover using it upside down when using the hooks.
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Thanks Wayward, I just skimmed the description and I didn't clue in that the hooks shown in the drawing were the same, they appear taller in height and shorter in length in the drawing.
It will be fun to try this out. It's kind of a silly substitute for a pot holder, but what the heck, I like it.
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Its a good thing I didn`t live back then !! I still can`t get my mind around how the thing works !! If it spreads to allow a pie in the middle what secures the end opposite the handle (hinge) ??
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It doesn't look like it locks over the object, but the person is expected to hang onto the handles and hold them together, like when you are lifting a hot pie out of the oven. The cuved arms would only work with round things, but I think those hooks might work for square pans. I think of it as an iron pot holder that essentially works like two mits. I also wonder how long it takes before the iron gets too hot to handle. I'm guessing since this is just to transfer a hot object from point A to point B, it doesn't have time to heat up.
I will provide a full report with pictures on how it works when it arrives. This is turning out to be an interesting science experiment! :D
One thing I learned, it is a heck of a lot easier to use Google Patent Search than it is to go through the government site.
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When you get it try standing it on the hook end and see if it would work as a toaster for a fireplace ?? Stand the bread in the hooks !! Couldnt tell from the pic if it would stand on end. Just curious !!
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Will a rubbing help detail the words better?
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Tales said...
One thing I learned, it is a heck of a lot easier to use Google Patent Search than it is to go through the government site.
Yes, but Google has changed some stuff on their basic patent search within the last month or last 2 weeks. I used to be able to sort by earliest date and I no longer see that option. I now go into advanced search to do my searches and forget about the basic search unless I know the number.
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To find this lifter tool, I typed in May 18 1875 and then looked through the headings, looking for anything that sounded like it could be this object, since nothing came up when I typed in the word pie with that date. It took me a few minutes, but I found it. If you type in the date into the general search window and it brings up everything. with that patent date in the text.
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Glad you found it.
I have had fun looking through patents and actually found the likes of a few "what is it" similarities we have seen over the years!
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If you type in the date into the general search window and it brings up everything. with that patent date in the text.
Yes, I realize that, but they are not chronological by issued date. When I could sort by earliest date, the patents were in order from earliest to latest. It also brings up the filing date which I usually never want. What is really funny is since these are scanned patents, some of the words make no sense because the scan tool used cannot pick up on poor original copy so sometimes the heading is pure gibberish.
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I run into that garbled text all the time trying to search scanned newspapers for genealogical research. I just found the gov't site had their own way that you had to enter the search query rather than using standard Boolean search queries. I spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to search their site.
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The kitchen lifting tool arrived today and I just experimented with lifting several objects in my office. It works surprisingly well, even on a smooth, straight-sided object like a CD-ROM canister. It is lighter weight than I thought it would be, which makes it much more feasible for its intended purpose than I imagined it would be.
The date is worn but still legible. I can easily see how the seller mixed up May 18 with May 10 as the number 8 is worn smooth.
It says "PAT'D MAY" on one piece of the lifter and "18 1875." on the other.
I figured out the use for the long tip on the hinge of the lifter. When you used as a stove lid lifter, this rests agaist the underside of the hand and leverages the weight of the stove lid. I'll post photos so that you can see this. It happens quite naturally when you turn it around and grip it and its purpose became immediately obvious to me.
I will post some photos shortly of the lifter in action shortly. It is better and more useful than I imagined it could be. It's looks are rather deceptive and it really does its job of gripping and lifting surprisingly well. The trick is in the straight bars on top. When the top of a cylindrical slippery object (like a ceramic coffee cup full of stuff) contact the straight bars over the top of it, it stabilizes the whole thing and grips really well. Quite a clever application of physics.
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Glad its working well !! Sure didn`t look like it would !! I am pleasantly surprised !!
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I had to do this with one hand while holding the camera with the other, but you get the idea. It's got a solid grip on the CD canister.
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In stove lid lifter mode. Note the position of the tip against the bottom of my hand for leverage:
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It is much smaller than I imagined.
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It is much smaller than I imagined.
Ditto! I was imagining having to handle something the size of garden shears ( a small pair)
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I showed it to Hubby when I got home tonight. He had no idea what it was at first, but once I showed him how to use it, he was surprised how well it could hold onto the dishes, and started picking up pieces of my cobalt dishware (not antique) turning them around, flipping them over etc. and it held onto them just fine, even upsidedown and sideways. Kind of a silly gadget, but cool nonetheless! It is fun to see something so old that is very simple yet inventive and obviously someone put a lot of thought into this funny gadget.
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Thanks for the photos Tales, I can now visualise how they work. :D
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That's neat- now how about a picture with a real pie??
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We're still working on the applesauce cake I made last weekend. ;) I am not sure if pie will be a good thing to use the lifters on since the crust and top stick up from the dish. I will have to try it to find out if it is a pie lifter or just a hot dish lifter.
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Thanks for the photos Talesof....my original idea from the pics was that it was gi-normouse (gigantic and enormous combined) and must've held a pie big enough for the whole town! LOL
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Last night at hubby's urging I used it to lift a plate of hot potatoes out of the microwave. It worked great and they were pretty big and heavy. I also tried it on a cake, but discovered that flexible sided pans cannot be lifted with it as it requires pressure to hold anything.
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Did anyone happen to catch this week's episode of Game of Thrones on HBO? The episode is called "Fight for the Imp". Hubby was watching it last night when he suddenly shouts out "Come quick! Your lifter is on TV!"
Unfortunately I didn't get into the room quick enough to see it, but apparently in the final climactic scene in the sacred lair of the Dothraki hoard, an iron pot lifter is used to pick up a cauldron of molten gold and dump it over the head of an enemy prince.
Ha! I've got a Dothraki cauldron lifter! Woo-hoo!!
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LOL! Guess your hubby will sleep with one eye open! LOL