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Antiques! => Antique Questions Forum => Topic started by: talesofthesevenseas on July 13, 2011, 01:32:40 am
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I just became the recipient of a large (upwards of 100 pieces) collection of Victorian era millinery (hat making) feathers. To a reenactor, this is a gold mine of goodies. These were given to me, so I'm keeping the good vibe going and will be giving them away to other lady reenactors, in a series of potluck events where you bring an unadorned hat and go home with a masterpiece! Some of the really unique things I think I will put into a display for reenactment events. Some of this stuff is pretty interesting. They came from a French lady and her great-grandson gave me a brief history on her. One story involved being shelled by a Prussian bomb that hit the house, but didn't explode! These came wrapped in tissue held closed with straight pins and labled in French.
Here are some samples from the collection:
Deep purple wired feathers:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0985.jpg)
A blue "bird" with real feathers and beak:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0984.jpg)
A large, beautiful silver-colored feather:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0983.jpg)
Striped feather, maybe from a pheasant?
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0981.jpg)
Feathered cuffs and perhas a frontspiece of some sort?
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0980.jpg)
Vibrant blue wing
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0977.jpg)
Feather tassle
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0976.jpg)
Ostrich plume wired collar?
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0975.jpg)
Lovely curled feathers
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0974.jpg)
Long red feathers
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0973.jpg)
This one is a bit of a horror, but ever so Victorian- It is made out of what I think are humming birds. In the center are the bottom beaks, then are the throats, bellies and finally the tails. I have never seen anything quite like this:
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0972.jpg)
Red plume with beads in the center
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0971.jpg)
Finally this is a sampling of what most of the collection is- lovely black feathers.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Victorian%20Millinery%20Feathers/DSCN0970.jpg)
Admit it... you're fascinated in a twisted kind of way! I'm going to take a display of these pieces to Old Sacramento where I did the treadle sewing machine demo last year and will have fun trying to convince folks to go catch me a bird, gut it, remove the head and feet then bring it back so that I can make it into a hat!! (too much fun!)
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Tales,the striped feather is a Ring-necked Pheasant tail feather. A word of caution on feathers...some are illegal to have and to hold. Any feather from a protected species is illegal so before you take any to a public setting, please be sure the ones you bring are legal.
I have tied flies for years and some old fly tying feathers from the Victorian era are illegal even if the bird has been dead for 100 years. Owning such and 'advertising' you have them give Federal authorities the right to search your whole property for more. Even using feathers from a songbird that crashed into the window are illegal.
I would just be prudent to be safe.
http://www.lab.fws.gov/featheratlas/
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Tales these are beautiful!!! Although sad for the little birds they are wonderful pieces of history!!! Would have loved to entered a opulent millinery salon in Paris, France during that time period!!! Here is a wonderful site that may help with your new find if you need it !!! http://www.ruedelapaixhats.com/ :o
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What a find!!! They are beautiful!
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Thanks Wayward! I will check into the legal issues. Thanks for saving me from jail time. ;D Fortunately the lady these came from wrote the species and color of each set of feathers on the folded and pinned tissue paper "envelopes" that they are in. I can translate them from French with an online translater and then look them up to see if they are illegal. Thanks for the heads up, that didn't occur to me. I bet my hummingbird circles turn out to be illegal. Don't bust me OK gang?!!
I agree they are beautiful, yet creepy at the same time. I think that's what makes them so interesting.
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I laughed thinking of the pirate woman in the brig!
Wise advise about the feathers....it is very true!!!!
Love your collection! What a prize!!!!
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Tales, there would not be any jail time...just money and lots of it! It is nice the woman wrote the species on the envelopes. That is a big time saver. The pheasant feather for sure is OK. Commonly sold for fly tying and used worldwide in flies, flower arrangements, and hats.
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If any of them end up being illegal to own, some can still be owned by Native Americans, especially feathers from birds-of-prey. You could always give them to an enrolled tribal member -- they will bless the feather and thank the bird, then they can use them in ceremonies.
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It looks like the ones that are the most common ones that get fined are Bald Eagle and Golden Eagle. I don't think I have any of those. What may be an issue are the herons and hummingbirds. I emailed CITES and the Fish & Wildlife Service explaining my situation and that I need a list to check these against. I am not finding a master list online. I will let you guys know what I come up with and will post any good lists in the Exceptional Threads section.
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I think this is going to be the info I need:
http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/RegulationsPolicies/treatlaw.html (http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/RegulationsPolicies/treatlaw.html)
Here is the species list that I think I need to refer to.
http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/RegulationsPolicies/mbta/mbtandx.html (http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/RegulationsPolicies/mbta/mbtandx.html)
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I have an email in to the Fish and Wildlife Service to find out if I need a permit to display these pieces. They issue permits for certain types of use. Hopefully one can be issued for this kind of use.
I think I will definitely need to take a different approach for the presentation however, and present it from an educational angle- that these birds were nearly hunted to extinction for hats and that is why we don't do this anymore.
I'll let you guys know what they say and in the meantime I'm going to sit down with the translator and compare what I have to the list of protected species. It would really be a bummer if this has to be hidden away. I've just never seen anything like this stuff and PC or not, this is what people did in the Victorian era. Right or wrong, it's really interesting because you just don't see this kind of stuff, certainly not in a huge quantity like this.
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I agree, and they are beautiful! They should be displayed, and I like the education angle!
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Yeah, I think I can do this and put a positive spin on it. It would certainly be meaningful when you see the real thing and then really think about the impact it had. The hummingbird one really does look like dead birds when you take a closer look, and with the right presentation this might be a lot more meaningful to kids who are learning about the environment than just reading about it in a text book.
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I think it was during the Victorian era that nest and egg collecting were also in vogue.
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Overall before the advent of the industrial age, most if not all items came from a natural source. It today world we just make it out of plastic and other wonderful stuff the the scientist of today come up with. In many ways this is a shame, and in other ways it is for the best. Guess it is the conflict of the new world we live in. Furs replaced by Poly???? or something, wood by used Mcdonald cups, and feathers well not sure what those synthetic ones are made of. But I sure is causes some sort of cancer or other human killing chemicals, well guess that is better then the bird.
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I threw out all the plastic and teflon in my kitchen. Went to good ol' cast iron and glass. They do still have feathers available in craft stores, but they are not like this, and what you can get is quite limited.
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Very nice assortment , talesofthe7c's !
I hope you get to fly wit' chore feathers & not get the bird (on the items in question) !
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Synthetics, though, don't have the same "feel" -- ask any woman about the difference in the "feel" of a real diamond ring and a cubic zirconia ring.
It's not difficult to gather real feathers. I have a pretty competitive bird feeder, I guess, because I find feathers scattered around my yard all the time (collecting songbird feathers might still be illegal in your area, especially if one is your state bird). My dad keeps chickens who lose feathers to each other and foxes (and lose more than feathers to the foxes!). If you live in the country, you'll find quail and pheasant feathers. If you have a peacock howling around the neighborhood, keep an eye out for their shed feathers.
Gathering feathers doesn't have to be cruel -- you just have to be willing to work with what nature is willing to give up.
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Good news, Fish and Wildlife has given me the go-ahead:
Claire: You can legally possess and display the hats and/or hat-making supplies. Iwould suggest in the literature you provide about their history (andconservation information about the birds) that you also mention these arepre-Act items (the birds were taken out of the wild prior to protectionunder the Migratory Bird Treaty Act or "MBTA"). The Act was first signedin 1918. There have been several amendments (the last adding all raptorsin 1972) which included different groups of birds. If these items dateback to the 1800's they are clearly pre-Act, regardless of when the birdscame under protection. You can possess or donate them, but not sell, tradeor barter them; or offer to sell trade or barter them. If you cannot work this information into your re-enactments, at least beprepared to answer the questions that may come up regarding their origin. Below is the citation in our Code of Federal Regulations, Part 21, whichstates that you can possess birds or parts which were acquired prior toprotection under the MBTA. If you would like further information regardingthe Migratory Bird Treaty Act and permits required to possess them, you canvisit our website http://www.fws.gov/migratorybirds/mbpermits.html Here is the section from the regulations which clarify possession ofpre-Act birds or specimens/parts: § 21.2 Scope of regulations.(a) Migratory birds, their parts,nests, or eggs, lawfully acquired priorto the effective date of Federal protectionunder the Migratory Bird TreatyAct (16 U.S.C. 703–712) may be possessedor transported without a permit, butmay not be imported, exported, purchased,sold, bartered, or offered forpurchase, sale or barter, and all shipmentsof such birds must be marked asprovided by part 14 of this subchapter:Provide, no exemption from any statuteor regulation shall accrue to any offspringof such migratory birds. Tami Tate-HallMigratory Bird Permit OfficePortland, Oregon
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Great news, Tales!
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Thanks for posting that , talesof !
I learned from you today !
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Wonderful!!! I look forward to seeing your creations!
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I learned two things today! I better quit while I'm ahead!
Thanks Tales, That's great.
My wife used to own a vintage Clothing store in Chicago (back when we were young.. sigh)
She used to get people bringing her all sorts of hats and millinery.. she loved it. And she was very fair in the prices she gave them. It was always half of what she knew it was worth.. the people were almost universally shocked and happy to take the offer.
Actually, that store is what spawned antique-shop.com... :)
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I learned a lot from this too, I'll have some pictures when we do the Old Sacramento event. I think the lady who is going with me and I will take sides- One lady believes in saving birds, the other just believes in beautiful hats! Should be a fun way to do the educational angle in character.
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Yesterday I picked up a nice looking display case on Craigslist. It needed a couple of the legs reset, so I got a pretty good price on it. Here it is with a sampling of the millinery feathers in it. I've got white and black velvet so that I can change the background color inside the case. The red feathers don't show up well against this background, so I may switch to white, or try half white half black and see if that looks OK or if it looks goofy. I've also included a picture of the sign I will put up. I still need to locate a Victorian-looking frame for this and clamp it to the case. More as it develops.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Millinery1.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Millinery2.jpg)
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/Millinery3.jpg)
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Geez, that is a nice display and display table, Tales. You sure do find some nice items on your craigslist. A little Old English on the wood and it should sparkle.
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Thanks, it is not old or terribly well made. The bottom of the case is plywood and the legs were pulling loose and one was off completely when I picked it up yesterday. I paid $40 for it. Table top display cases are going for about $100+ on C-list here, so I was OK with the price. The seller was asking for $90, but thought this was an antique because it had come from her "auntie" who apparently passed away. I pointed out all the modern hardware, plywood and Phillips head screws, plus the fact that I would need to do the work on it and negotiated it down to $40. Just this once, I wasn't in the market for an antique, just a deal. I re-glued the legs and reset the wood screws that attach the legs, to get it ready for next month, but ultimately I would like to replace the bottom and set it up with hardware so that the legs can be removed to transport and store it. I'll try the Old English and see if I can reduce the look of some of the scratches. Good idea.
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Very interesting. fantastic items for display
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Great Good and Good work Tales... ;D
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Here's the finished display case. The sign and side brackets are mounted on a slide mount so that the whole upper section can be removed for storage and while being transported.
(http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/DisplayCaseFinished.jpg)
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Nice, love the display cabinet