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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Bed Frame from LC & WL Cron Co - how "antique" is it?

« on: September 24, 2012, 03:58:48 pm »

Okay, so not so my "post-Nouveau;" maybe closer to  "Able was I ere I saw Elba" -
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:San_Martino_-_Napoleons_Haus_Bett.jpg
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:17-6-09-Villa_san_Martino_(23).JPG

My bed could be a simplified style based on this bed from Napoleon's house on Elba - I was startled to see the similarities in the flat, veneered bodies of the head- and footboards. (Not sure if this was actually Napoleon's bed; but, unless my sense of proportion is off, whoever slept in it was either very short or very uncomfortable.)

Empire Revival also seems to date to the mid-to-late 19th century, which seems to correspond to when LC & WL Cron were making furniture under that name.

Maybe I'll have a try at getting the label off of its side rail today, in the hope of then being able to clean it up enough to maybe get a date off of it - assuming, of course, that I don't destroy it in the process...  

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Bed Frame from LC & WL Cron Co - how "antique" is it?

« on: September 24, 2012, 03:21:32 am »

Okay, lemme see if I've got this right...

Neoclassicism -
Started with the Renaissance in other areas; but didn't reach furniture until about the start of the 19th century. Once there, however, it stuck around until at least the early 20th century. (If I'm not mistaken, Revival, Empire, Jacobean, Chippendale, Queen Anne are all sub-groups under the Neoclassical heading.) Neoclassicism may be showing up in my bed's simple lines and clean curves.

Victorian -
1840-something to 1905-ish. Heavy, highly ornamented, intricately detailed. Someone who didn't particularly care for this style might say that its worst excesses seem to be what happened when mass production hit Rococo. Someone who didn't particularly care for this style but did own my bed might admit to seeing a possible Victorian influence in a slight heaviness to the bed's overall shape, but that's about as far as she'd be willing to go.

Arts & Crafts style -
Started mid-19th century, was partially subsumed into Art Nouveau in the late 19th & early 20th centuries, and then largely surpassed by Art Deco in the 1920's - 1940's. What I'll call the "graceful utilitarianism" of my bed's overall design would be in keeping with the "form follows function" principle underlying the entire Arts & Crafts Movement.

Art Nouveau -
Started late 19th century, continued into 1920's or so. My bed's gracefully scrolling legs & feet seem to reflect the "whiplash" line characteristic of Art Nouveau.

Art Deco -
1920's through 1940's. Neoclassicism for the machine/atomic age, often influenced by then-freshly-(re)discovered Egyptian antiquities. The simple, "streamlined' lines of my bed could Neoclassicism showing up in Art Deco.

So, my bed show Neoclassical, Arts &Crafts, & Art Nouveau influences. I think I'll stick to calling the bed's style "post-Nouveau," at least to myself, not least because I like the oxymoron-wordplay of it.

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Ok what is this?

« on: September 23, 2012, 06:38:59 pm »

Don't be sorry greenacres.  I have actually used some metal containers from AC Moore for a variety of things.  And this might be one of those things that you would have to be holding in your hands.  I have only found a couple items on ebay that were from the United Arab Republic and they have the same patina or appearance. 

It does look handcrafted and not mass produced but maybe it would not have to be to be exported.  One thing I can't figure out - the writing is on the bottom inside the pedestal and yet it looks worn down - almost illegible as if something had rubbed it off - interesting.

Maybe there was a bronze (I'd expect copper or brass to show more tarnish instead of this nice patina) alloy than was common to metalware made in the UAR? I don't think that part of the world was not very mechanized then (prior to the rise of OPEC) - I expect most things were handcrafted.

Kidden, can you tell how the bowl is attached to the pedestal? I have a wild idea that, if they were attached by some sort of process (like being hammered together while hot) that hardened that area of the metal, the lettering punches would not have marked the harder metal of the attachment as deeply as the softer surrounding metal - which might make more sense than that center area somehow having been worn down.

One of the ebay items gave me another wild idea by having a maker's mark in the bottom of the bowl. Is it my imagination, or is there an "S" (or maybe a snake) in a circle in the bottom of the bowl of your gravy boat/Aladdin's lamp/Lilliputian coal scuttle?

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: 11" long silverplated cake knife?

« on: September 23, 2012, 06:11:49 pm »

Wrights Silver cream...is,nt just for silver...you can polish almost anything with it....including your false gnashers...

http://jawright.com/products/uses.asp

*Except* for copper, brass, & bronze. I've never tried it and so am not sure what happens, but it's recommended against on the label. (Weirdly, I've found that catsup works great for cleaning copper - although I have yet to try it on anything more delicate than a copper-bottomed cooking pan.)

(Wullie - you mean I'm not supposed to use Wright's for brushing my real teeth? ... maybe that's why everything's been tasting funny lately...)

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: 11" long silverplated cake knife?

« on: September 23, 2012, 03:40:03 pm »

Just on the bottom for tin foil?  Need a whole box of baking soda?

Not sure of the specifics of the chemical reaction, but the baking soda makes the water alkaline and the aluminum foil catalyzes the silver sulfides in the tarnish into hydrodgen sulphide gas. If it smells like rotten eggs, you're doing it right.

I use maybe 2-3 tablespoons of baking soda per quart of warm tap water, and often leave it to soak overnight (but green's boiling water would give faster results). It works wonderfully to clean things that are black with tarnish, but I still use Wright's Silver Cream to when I want to "finish" the silver off to a high polish.

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Other things

« on: September 22, 2012, 09:47:32 pm »

I am all over that trunk! And even more so the wardrobe! (swoon)

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Ok what is this?

« on: September 22, 2012, 08:35:07 pm »

I was thinking of something like this http://www.christies.com/LotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=5157889, although yours may not be quite as old

(Note to Wull: I turned this up while googling "arab* oil lamp bronze" - dial that into your old combo lock & you should have no problem )

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Ok what is this?

« on: September 22, 2012, 07:47:45 pm »

It kind of reminds me of Aladdin's lamp...

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Wooden box has me stumped!

« on: September 22, 2012, 07:32:14 pm »

Mart, are you thinking of Japanese-style sumi-e ink paintings? (There's a similar Chinese style, but I don't know the name.) That style uses ink in sticks, which are ground into powder and wetted on a inkstone as the artist works. If this set-up is like that, maybe the space in the center is for the inkstone? (Or else maybe for a small palette-dish. Or some sort of blotter paper?) (Or - hey! It's just about the right size for one of those well-known antique Post-It pads! )

But the style doesn't seem Japanese at all to me. The griffin/birds reminds me a little of some stuff I've seen in Russian folk art. Could it be Central Asian or something?

(And is that a little duckie in the middle of the underside? Possibly a maker's mark?)

(edited for spelling - I must have had a little too much Maker's Mark... )

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: What the heck did I just buy? African style head carvings

« on: September 22, 2012, 06:39:05 pm »

I believe there's 2 because they are a pair. They were on each end of a fireplace mantle. When you say that they were meant to be looked at...  As opposed to what?

I think Mart may have meant as opposed to items created for sacred or ceremonial use (e.g. something like Rodin's "The Thinker" as opposed to a statue of the Virgin Mary). And while sacred or ceremonial items might carry more inherent value, a piece created purely for art can be just as fine, or sometimes more so.

The "nail" on the foreheads reminds me of the Bindi that Hindu women wear on their foreheads - I wonder if it could be something similar?

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Bed Frame from LC & WL Cron Co - how "antique" is it?

« on: September 22, 2012, 06:24:41 pm »

This is what the vast majority of the veneer looks like - much grime (& bad previous finishing?) and many smallish areas of loose/blistered/ruffled/cracked veneer to be reattached.

 (Hunh - I'd tried to attach all three photos (they're each about 300 KB to 400 KB) with my first reply above, but gave up after waiting 10 minutes for the post to appear. These single-photo posts are coming up fine, though...)

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Bed Frame from LC & WL Cron Co - how "antique" is it?

« on: September 22, 2012, 06:18:01 pm »

The photo below is my best picture/photo-edit of the label so far - it’s amazingly hard to get a decent photo of it. Once I figure out how to remove the label without damaging it too much, I’ll be able to (clean it some more and) scan it, which should give a much better image.

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Bed Frame from LC & WL Cron Co - how "antique" is it?

« on: September 22, 2012, 06:15:54 pm »

Thank you all - cogar, wull, ghopper, wendy, mart, & KC - for your replies & encouragement.

It is indeed a gorgeous bed - thanks, g-hop . The beauty of the wood even shines through its present layer of grime. And I love that it’s a sleigh bed, but without any real overhang to “prow” or “stern” - my apartment is too small to give up much floor space to pure ornamentation.

I’d thought early 20th C, too. It has only a few touches of the “whiplash” curvilinearity characteristic of Art Nouveau, and the cleanliness and not-quite-severity of the lines put me in mind of Art Deco - is there such a thing as post-Nouveau/pre-Deco?

(Along those lines, does anyone know or have suggestions on how to find out when LC & WL Cron *stopped* making furniture under that name? I’ve found info on their 1868 start-up, & on some very Victorian stuff from 1898, but nothing beyond 1900 so far.)

My general plan is to first rinse off the dust & loose dirt with water & mild soap, followed immediately by a wipe-down with rubbing alcohol and then with a clean-&-feed wood conditioner (Method “Wood For Good” until the bottle runs out, & then Weiman’s Lemon Oil).

To be clear, the only veneer I am removing is the stuff that is truly done for and half-gone already, as in the photo below. I’m also saving the larger pieces in case I get truly brave and want to try using it to patch some of the better veneer.

Then I’ll move onto repairs, which will mostly be reattaching many smallish areas of loose/blistered/ruffled/cracked veneer.

 The idea of “ironing my bed” seems weird as heck, but at the same time absolutely logical. The moist-to-damp towel “steam treatment” sounds like a good way to go - thanks, cogar!

I was reading somewhere on the web (so it *must* be a good idea ) about people using waxed paper in between the veneer and an ironing cloth/towel with a warm iron - has anyone here tried this?

(KC, I’m guessing whoever scorched the wood must have had the iron on pretty hot, like a “cotton” or “linen” setting? I wouldn’t think wood would scorch at the lower end of the “steam” range, or am I wrong?)

I love the idea of a “furniture syringe” - I have some cat-sized syringes leftover from old feline-veterinary adventures that may be just about  right. Has anyone tired to get old glue and/or gunk out from under detached veneer, or it it best just to let it lie?

Thanks again to everyone

- Evelyn

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Antique Questions Forum / Bed Frame from LC & WL Cron Co - how "antique" is it?

« on: September 22, 2012, 02:26:30 am »

Hi - I'm a newbie, and am throwing myself upon your collective mercy in hope of an answer to this question:

I recently bought a (very) used walnut-veneer bedframe, and was starting to clean it up when I noticed a partial label(!). It's a little tough to decipher, but it seems to be from the LC & WL Cron Company in Piqua, Ohio. In fact, it seems very similar to one in the thread that brought me to this forum http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=6598.0  (except I think that bed's veneer is in much better shape than mine ).

But now I'm a little afraid to do the cleaning & repairs that the bed needs, for fear of destroying some of its antique value. Some of the veneer is peeling like birchbark, and I'd planned to remove it and just sand & finish the less-glamourous-but-still-solid wood underneath; but now I'm worried that I would be committing some sort of grave historic disservice.

(FWIW, D&b antiques estimated the bed in the linked thread above to worth about $250. The dealer I bought mine from had originally priced it at $275, later knocked it down to $225, and then - because they're about to move the entire business to a new warehouse - gave it to me for the "take my bed frame, please" price of $100. I bought it mainly to hold my mattress & box springs up off the floor, and because the wood is beautiful, rather than for any antique value.)

Maybe I'm worried for nothing - after all, I'd be hard put to find a similar bed frame brand-new for $250. But it'd sure be nice to have someone who knows more about antiques than I do (i.e., almost anyone on this forum) say so.