Messages

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Ivory elephants

« on: August 19, 2013, 09:58:07 am »

Hi Mart,

I think you may have misunderstood me - I do have the old insurance papers from 1981. On these yhey were listed simply as "ivory elephants", and a value placed upon them. I also have the original valuation papers for household contents from both Sotheby's and Bonhams, in which they are also listed and which the insurance obviously used for their purposes. What i want to know now is what they might be worth, at which stage we'll make a decision on what to do. Taking them to another country, whether illegally or legally, is fraught with expense and danger.

I had hoped someone was going to tell me a little about them - whether they were indeed carved in the far east, and perhaps in which country. I have no idea how old they are either. My mother was just as likely to buy them from a tourist dealer as she was in a shop selling antiquities.

Thanks for the replies, everyone.

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Ivory elephants

« on: August 19, 2013, 07:34:02 am »

Alas, no, I have no more information. I know my mother bought them in the early 1960's, I see them in photos from that era (perhaps she may have had them longer), and they have just been part of the furniture ever since. She died some time ago and of course, no one else has any information. I know what they were valued at for insurance purposes back in the 1980's, but that's it.

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Ivory elephants

« on: August 17, 2013, 09:56:01 pm »

fancypants - I like your suggestion, assuming you mean that a shop sends them to me as legal merchandise ?

Mart - they have not been verified as to species though.......... so maybe we should just say they are definitely African ivory to make it simple.....

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Ivory elephants

« on: August 17, 2013, 02:36:34 pm »

Hi Mart,

I can assure you they are ivory. Several people over the years have done the hot-pin test on them, and they were identified as ivory by both Bonhams and Sotheby's over the years for insurance purposes (though they had little else to say about them).  I've just never really given them much notice before until my friend commented on them recently. They were certainly valued at rather more than what a lump of plastic would sell for   -  I just wanted to know if they were worth anything in today's market and then we were going to make a decision on what to do with them.

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Ivory elephants

« on: August 17, 2013, 02:32:15 pm »

Not really, we're here on a visa which is about to expire and our business here is done. We have no relatives here in the US so leaving them here is not going to be a solution. I was made aware of the problems that they might potentially cause by a friend who knows we are going back to Europe. They have unwittingly travelled well with us over the years, through various countries, and I have never given it a second thought.

Anyway, having posted this, I have had a quick look on the net and found this summary of the laws on eBay :

AFRICAN ELEPHANT: This is on the C.I.T.E.S. endangered species list. The importation, selling and buying of this ivory IS NOT ALLOWED INTERNATIONALLY. It cannot be exported or imported to the U.S. and most of the countries delegated to the U.N., BUT... it is LEGAL TO OWN, SELL, BUY, or SHIP within the boundaries of the U.S. and there are NO PERMITS or REGISTRATION requirements! *The majority of african elephant ivory is "old estate" ivory that was brought into this country since its' inception.

ASIAN ELEPHANT : Also on the C.I.T.E.S. Endangered species list and is ILLEGAL  to buy, trade, sell, import or export anywhere internationally or INTERSTATE within the U.S.

It would appear that therefore I have to determine whether they are African or Indian ivory first, and then decide what to do if we want to do anything at all. It would follow also then that if they are Asian ivory, then I am confined to trading them in Florida only ? If they are African then I am free to sell them throughout the US, which was my original thought...

Thanks for your patience...if anyone knows whether it is easy to determine what species of elephant these came from I'd love to hear. Apparently, African ivory was exported to Indonesia regularly and even if these pieces were created there is it highly likely they were made from African ivory.

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Ivory elephants

« on: August 17, 2013, 01:44:15 pm »

Ah, okay.  Understood. I thought the certificate was necessary for commercial applications, notably export and import. I had no idea there were restrictions on second-hand ivory inside a country. I'll wrap them up then and bury them in the garden. I have no wish for them to be found in our belongings if that's going to cause problems...

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Antique Questions Forum / Re: Ivory elephants

« on: August 17, 2013, 01:25:33 pm »

No, I do not have a certificate. I thought that was only a requirement for export and import ? I cannot prove their provenance further back than about 1960, I guess. I have them in photos from that period.

Thanks for the reply !

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Antique Questions Forum / Ivory elephants

« on: August 17, 2013, 11:15:41 am »

Hi all,

I'm new to the forum, so apologies in advance for mistakes, breaches of etiquette, etc etc.

I have a pair of ivory elephants, which were bought by my mother in Indonesia, circa 1960. That is what I have been led to believe though she did visit India and Japan at the same time. We have had the carvings in the family but know little about them.

Can any member tell us more, and if so, whether they are of any value ?  They are approximately 12" in length (including tusks) and are very fat - 5" or so. They weigh 1lb 12ozs and 1lb 15ozs.

We are currently in Florida, USA, but are about to head back to Europe due to work and the last thing I wish to do is cause problems with customs due to current restrictions.

Thank you in advance.