Author Topic: HELP - question about Scrimshaw  (Read 3923 times)

cogar

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HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« on: December 10, 2011, 09:45:03 am »

Much to my surprise  :o :o .... I found these two (2) pieces of Scrimshaw listed on a local auction site, to wit, the url link to a picture of them:

http://www.auctionzip.com/Full-Image/1259388/fp67.cgi
   
And what you see in that “auction” picture …… is all I know about them.

Being pretty much completely ignorant on how to determine their originality, factuality and/or an estimated value if in fact they are authentic scrimshaw produced during the “whaling years”, …… I would be quite pleased with any advice, comments, opinions, value, etc. from members of this Forum.

If they look good enough to be authentic, …… I just might send the wife “auctioning” next week.

Thanks much, Sam C

mart

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Re: HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2011, 10:14:53 am »
Cogar,, I see some things that say "yes, it is an older piece" and some that say, "not sure" !!  I will say that if the price is reasonable,,I would take a chance on them !! The scrimshaw work is great so really don`t see how you could lose unless that pic really lies !!  What did the description say about them and what is the size ??

Rauville

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Re: HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2011, 03:24:48 pm »
I would really be carefull with those, and make sure they are not resin to begin with. Do some research before bidding...please.
http://www.scrimshawcollectors.com/AuthenticFakeshaw1.html

JoshandLila

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Re: HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2011, 03:54:01 pm »
nice link Rauville  :)
"Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe."
H. G. Wells

mart

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Re: HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2011, 06:20:02 pm »
The one on the left likely is a repro,, the one on the right I would love to do a hands on !!  Still, I think they are worth looking at if the price is right !!

JoshandLila

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Re: HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2011, 06:22:21 pm »
my thoughts exactly, the one on the left seems to dark to be old. the one on the right looks like the wear and age came AFTER the art work was done which is what youd look for
"Human history becomes more and more a race between education and catastrophe."
H. G. Wells

regularjoe2

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Re: HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2011, 07:05:43 pm »
I sure wish the images were higher res/clearer , but we don't have a means to get more , I'm guessing , huh cogar ?

The clarity & quality of some of the 'carvings' are a flag to me .... coupled by the fact that there are map co-ords & portrature of a captain (& the carver was literate) .

Ivory whale teeth - maybe .

I've used a 30x loupe to see laser (& rotary) tool marks on sorta-like items , most of which wound up being modern re-pros (on whale ivory) which may or may not have been made 'to decieve' buyers .
Most of the whale-tooth scrim I've seen has a distinct primitave style to them , indicative of being carved by sorta 'common-folks' sailors of the times when whaling was big business .

If they are being sold as 'authentic/genuine' , ask to see the prov !!!

That's 2 cents from me ....
Sure worth takin' a gander @ in person , I think .

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2011, 01:37:01 am »
I would assume that they are modern. The clothing on the guy in the portrait looks late 1700's early 1800's. Very Horatio Hornblower. If this were the real thing from that time period, if I'm not mistaken it would be worth thousands. The repros look very, very real. If it doesn't claim to be authentic I would assume that it is not. Too good to be true, in my opinion.
Antiqueaholic in recovery

cogar

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Re: HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2011, 06:58:07 am »
Thanks everyone, that was great information ……. and enough to make me more curious and skeptical at the same time. Especially this statement from the link posted by Rauville, to wit:

Quote
Only 5% of authentic antique scrimshaw has text, and only 2% of authentic antique scrimshaw are dated by scrimshander. Another "tell" about EFS scrimwork is the over-abundance of text & dates.

The one pictured on the right was the most doubtful for me given the fact it depicts an island(s) in the China Sea with names of places, landmarks, compass “points”, etc., like it was suppose to represent a “Pirate’s buried treasure map” ……. which doesn’t actually negate it from being authentic scrimshaw, …… but not likely having been done by a sailor on a Whaler. If original, me thinks it would have had to have been made by someone who was quite knowledgeable about that island like maybe a sailor on a “trading ship” that plied the China Sea.  

My first question upon seeing that auction “picture” was, ….. what are those two pieces doing showing up in a local “small town” auction in central WV? But one never knows when a “rare find” will show up in an unsuspecting place. (Like that “lost” oil painting of that Texas battle scene.)

Anyway, all I know about that per say “scrimshaw” is the picture accompanying this Auction notice/listing (click “view Photo Gallery” tab at upper left), to wit:   http://www.auctionzip.com/Listings/1259388.html

The auctioneer, who I have known for at least 20 years, doesn’t give his opinion on any item, he leaves it up to the “buyer” to decide what it is and what its worth.  
« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 07:00:25 am by cogar »

Rauville

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Re: HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2011, 08:43:17 am »
Cogar;
I'm glad you questioned these, before bidding on something meant to deceive. I remember when a "big city auctioneer" showed up to auction off the contents of his Aunt's house in a small Minnesota town. Darn, if a "scrimshawed" tooth wasn't found in the attic, and sold for several hundred dollars. As luck would have it, within a few minutes of selling the first tooth, the auctioneer pulled another one out of his back pocket, and it sold for even more money. It's amazing what people choose to believe.

Here's some more information on fakes: http://www.whalingmuseum.org/library/fakeshaw/search.html Be sure to check out item 12a.

(And yes, good things do show up in unexpected places. I once bought a box of odd and ends for a few dollars at a household auction because of a coffee cup sized crock from Vermont. I later put the little crock on eBay for $75...and it sold...for over 10K. So every auction is worth checking out.)

mart

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Re: HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2011, 09:54:47 am »
While I am sure you would prefer them to be from early whaling days !!  They may be more modern pieces !!  Scrimshaw which basically means "scratching" or "to scratch" could also have been done more recently !! If they are advertised as scrimshaw and actually done by this method, there is no deception !! If done by means of decals ect then it is fraudulent advertising !!  Even if done later, I would still buy them !! The one on the right could possibly be scrimshaw, the one on the left, almost sure its newer repro, not sure of the method !! Its too consistant overall !!

hosman321

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Re: HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2011, 10:11:51 am »
They give me a funny feeling all around, especially the one on the right. Almost looks like a sponged-on coloration to age it. The "CHINA SEA" on the left one also gives me a funny feeling. Just seems like a modern writing style and all in caps. Just rubs me the wrong way. The art on them seems pretty modernized and fantasy-like. Also, the fact that they are kept in a ziplock bag is...weird.

cogar

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Re: HELP - question about Scrimshaw
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2011, 10:45:05 am »
Quote
The "CHINA SEA" on the left one ...

OOPS, ...... thanks Hosman, ...... you comment just made me realize that in my last post I was describing what I was "seeing" in the picture I uploaded and rotated 180 degrees ...... so the "one on the right" in my post would be the "one on the left" in the cited picture.

Sorry bout that.