Antique 1800's Sauce Boat?

[KevinM]

I purchased this Sauce Boat (I think that's what it is) yesterday and am having trouble identifying the Maker and Date.

I was able to identify the mark as a British Registry Mark from either 1841 - 1867 or 1868 - 1883 but since the mark is not that legible I am having trouble identifying the rest of the mark legend.

The top of the diamond has an IV and in the left corner I can make out a "W" and in the center it looks like it may be a large "R" and something else. Along the sides of the diamond are 2 words I can't make out. Also impressed is the number 23.

The sauce boat with the plate is about 9 1/4 inches in length, 7 inches in width and about 5 inches in height. It is white and the design is hand painted blue over a raised or embossed porcelain pattern or molding.

Does anyone know who the Maker of this sauce boat was and can anyone make out what the rest of the mark says?

Thanks for all help!
Kevin

[bigwull]

Kevin,if you make some graphite dust from a pencil..then dust over the mark then we might be able to see it better,...or take a rubbing using a piece of fine paper and a pencil...

[mart]

http://www.justanswer.com/antiques/6289a-english-stoneware.html
you should find this interesting, kevin !! the diamond shape is the british registry mark, the IV means its ceramic,, left point should have a letter for the month it was registered and the right point should have a number for the day it was registered !! the words on bottom left is the maker,, if you can read it !! the one in the link was made by wb cobridge, !!  but your maker may be different !!  yours looks to be an earlier mark than the link is !!

[bigwull]

I,m needing new specs...how the hell could you read that Mart...you might have something wrong with your wrist,but there,s nowt wrong with your eye,s thats for sure...
I,m fast running out of Coconuts....well done,

[KevinM]

bigwull, thanks, I have darkened the image using the HP Photosmart Design Gallery Software to enhance the photo. That is the photo I have posted. The maker mark impression is not deep and I have had little luck in the past with similar pencil rubbings or dusting on shallow impressions.

mart, thanks for that information! That is inline with the mark on this piece and it may or may not be the same maker. The British Registry Mark would date it but the mark is very weak to see. I think it's IV at the top, maybe an I or N under it in the top diamond. The left diamond I think is a W or N. The right diamond and bottom diamond I can't make out. The R could be an Rd but that is hard to see. I can only make out a few of the letters in the words outside of the diamond.

Thanks,

Kevin

[frogpatch]

Whatever you find out it s a really nice piece. Well designed and decorated and to have both the bowl and the under plate is great. It seems to have a lot of age to it. It would display nicely

[mart]

i cant read it,,, it was on that link i posted !!  eyes ain`t that good !!  but its possibly the same maker from what the last quarter inch looks like !!  i could make out the "E" !!  not much more than that !!
kevin,, check that link and read it all !!  i think if it is an N it tells the date made because the one in question there had an N !!

[KevinM]

frogpatch, thanks! Yes, having them both is definitely a bonus!

[KevinM]

mart, thanks! I've also read the PM&M site earlier, they have a good breakdown of the British Registry Marks...

[KevinM]

Thanks everyone for the replies. I finally figured out enough of the the letters along the triangle or kite and came up with "Forster" from there I was able to nail it down to "Elsmore & Forster". The name "Elsmore" is along the other side of the triangle, I could make out a couple of the letters of "Elsmore" by zooming in with a digital camera and using the glare of a dayl ighter light bulb to confirm it.

The tureen, gravy or sauce boat (what should it be called?), is Mid 1800's. I could not find another one like it that was hand painted. Most of Elsmore & Forster  pieces where white that I had found and none like mine that was hand painted and had just the triangle maker/registration mark so I think this one is a bit rare and earlier period (1842 - 1850).

[mart]

how big is it ??

[KevinM]

mart, just the boat or bowl itself is about 8 1/2 inches long including the handles, 5 inches wide and about 4 1/4 inches in height.

[mart]

i would say you are right calling it a sauce boat !!