Author Topic: NEED HELP: Dresden Germany Porcelain Piece  (Read 2947 times)

diamondjim12

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NEED HELP: Dresden Germany Porcelain Piece
« on: May 25, 2013, 08:17:22 pm »
First, I would like to thank you all in advance for your opinions and help with identifying this piece. My background is in jewelry and militarily items. I have searched all over the internet and by researching know that Dresden is a city in Germany and is world-known for making quality fine porcelain pieces. I found that there are many "makers/artist" that produce Dresden pieces and have been for over a hundred years. I am not even sure what this piece is(dish, pill-box, fragrance holder, or ??). On the bottom it is stamped "Dresden", with a makers mark stamped above? They are blue in color. Below the word Dresden are two numbers(gold colored), a small "12" and larger "50", I assume this is the pattern number? Also, engraved(indented) into the piece on the bottom is the following letter/numbers "A5497L", and I have no idea what this may represent. I do not see any fading, chips, cracks or repairs. It is a lattice & floral design. Please see the detailed high-def photos below. Any and all help would be appreciated, thanks again for your time & help. I am stumped  ???
« Last Edit: May 27, 2013, 06:23:34 pm by diamondjim12 »

mart

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Re: NEED HELP: Dresden Germany Porcelain Piece
« Reply #1 on: May 25, 2013, 08:39:37 pm »
Looks to be a potpourri holder !! That's why its vented !!  Will have to look  up mark tomorrow !! Don`t think its very old but will look !!

Chris_Marshall

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Re: NEED HELP: Dresden Germany Porcelain Piece
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2013, 01:54:44 am »
Dresden as town was the location of multiple decoration studios; no porcelain or such was actually manufactured there. Only exceptions were located OUTSIDE Dresden, like the former Villeroy & Boch factory or that one mentioned below. When seeing "Dresden" in general, always hold in mind that it was used as location of origin -or- decoration style name. Hence it can also be found used by the Dresden Pottery Co. (East Liverpool, Ohio) or the former Mueller company from Dromcollogher, Ireland. Never jump to conclusions when you see "Dresden", always verify the background. Even decorators in Dresden did not always decorate "Dresden style", many are known to have decorated items with Meissen florals (both Dresden and Meissen main decorations are florals, the school of decorating however was completely different).
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Shown mark consists of the intertwining letters 'SP', standing for Saechsische Porzellanfabrik ("saxonian porcelain factory"); the full manufacturer name was Saechsische Porzellanfabrik zu Potschappel von Carl Thieme. It was located in the small town of Potschappel near Dresden which was later later merged with two other suburbs, resulting in the newly-formed district of Freital (today Dresden-Freital).

Shown mark was introduced 1901 and used in that form until 1918 before it was replaced by three different successor marks. The numbers are the item number (A5497L) and various quality control numbers ("12" was the ID for the person that decorated the item in color, "50" was the ID of the person responsible for gilding).
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Note that I never comment on value, as is explained here http://www.porcelainmarksandmore.com/resources/essay_value.php

Ipcress

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Re: NEED HELP: Dresden Germany Porcelain Piece
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2013, 02:22:18 am »
I'd be cautious with that date and origin. Looks very similar to this later one but without the extra mark. Also, no one would put another mark over the factory mark.

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9270669


How did you acquire it ?

amiga

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Re: NEED HELP: Dresden Germany Porcelain Piece- well done chris
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2013, 03:39:11 am »
Well I do not know anything about your lovely dish but I am very impressed with the answer you got form Chris Marshall exceptional work. A talented and knowledgeable man indeed.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2013, 03:40:52 am by amiga »

diamondjim12

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Re: NEED HELP: Dresden Germany Porcelain Piece
« Reply #5 on: May 26, 2013, 09:06:56 am »
Dresden as town was the location of multiple decoration studios; no porcelain or such was actually manufactured there. Only exceptions were located OUTSIDE Dresden, like the former Villeroy & Boch factory or that one mentioned below. When seeing "Dresden" in general, always hold in mind that it was used as location of origin -or- decoration style name. Hence it can also be found used by the Dresden Pottery Co. (East Liverpool, Ohio) or the former Mueller company from Dromcollogher, Ireland. Never jump to conclusions when you see "Dresden", always verify the background. Even decorators in Dresden did not always decorate "Dresden style", many are known to have decorated items with Meissen florals (both Dresden and Meissen main decorations are florals, the school of decorating however was completely different).
---
Shown mark consists of the intertwining letters 'SP', standing for Saechsische Porzellanfabrik ("saxonian porcelain factory"); the full manufacturer name was Saechsische Porzellanfabrik zu Potschappel von Carl Thieme. It was located in the small town of Potschappel near Dresden which was later later merged with two other suburbs, resulting in the newly-formed district of Freital (today Dresden-Freital).

Shown mark was introduced 1901 and used in that form until 1918 before it was replaced by three different successor marks. The numbers are the item number (A5497L) and various quality control numbers ("12" was the ID for the person that decorated the item in color, "50" was the ID of the person responsible for gilding).
---
Note that I never comment on value, as is explained here http://www.porcelainmarksandmore.com/resources/essay_value.php


Thank you for your insightful answer, I never knew any of that. Now I know what I have and when it dates to. I will take a look at the link you provided as well. Thanks again!

diamondjim12

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Re: NEED HELP: Dresden Germany Porcelain Piece
« Reply #6 on: May 26, 2013, 09:12:37 am »
I'd be cautious with that date and origin. Looks very similar to this later one but without the extra mark. Also, no one would put another mark over the factory mark.

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9270669


How did you acquire it ?

This was a flea-market find in Central Florida. I paid a modest $3.00 for the item from an old man. He had tons of porcelain and ceramic pieces. The hand coloring and craftsmanship caught my eye. The gold gilding was flawless. For $3.00 it was worth the gamble. In regards to your link, it appears as if, and im only guessing, that the piece in that auction was from a later date. I think it a more modern piece.

sugarcube5419

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Re: NEED HELP: Dresden Germany Porcelain Piece
« Reply #7 on: May 26, 2013, 09:16:26 am »
nice to see chris...always a good response from you

Ipcress

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Re: NEED HELP: Dresden Germany Porcelain Piece
« Reply #8 on: May 26, 2013, 10:52:44 am »
I'd be cautious with that date and origin. Looks very similar to this later one but without the extra mark. Also, no one would put another mark over the factory mark.

http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/9270669


How did you acquire it ?

This was a flea-market find in Central Florida. I paid a modest $3.00 for the item from an old man. He had tons of porcelain and ceramic pieces. The hand coloring and craftsmanship caught my eye. The gold gilding was flawless. For $3.00 it was worth the gamble. In regards to your link, it appears as if, and im only guessing, that the piece in that auction was from a later date. I think it a more modern piece.

Well i'd be stunned if that was 100 years old. The company might have changed the mark in the early 20th century but that marked was used in the 70's.

Dresden porcelain c1900 was very fine indeed. This looks nice but isn't of the same quality. I also dislike the rough nature of the base rim and, once again, the marks over the factory stamp.

Before 1936 items would have gilt on them. After 1936 it's more golden brown.

Take a look at this on Ebay :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DRESDEN-Porcelain-Carl-Thieme-Reticulated-MINIATURE-ROUND-FLORAL-BASKET/151048828379?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D11%26meid%3D7934216783278693259%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D1005%26rk%3D5%26sd%3D230941397378%26

No bids at that price says it all.