Author Topic: Silver Pitcher, Ivory, Etching on bottom...  (Read 3995 times)

skipnyamaha

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Silver Pitcher, Ivory, Etching on bottom...
« on: July 19, 2009, 10:47:03 pm »
OK, I have another one that may spark some interest with someone out there.  This vase is solid silver with a decorative ivory ring around the handle.  The etching on the vase in very intricate and detailed and I would assume was done by hand.  The markings on the bottom are gibberish to me as unless you know exactly what they mean you are lost.  If anyone out there has any insight to this one I would be GREATLY appreciative.  Thanks alot....again!!

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: Silver Pitcher, Ivory, Etching on bottom...
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2009, 12:37:10 am »
I can help ya with some of this one. M.H. & Co is Martin Hall and Company.

MH over & Co into a shield
Martin Hall & Co Ltd,
The firm origins by the partnership established in 1820 in Sheffield by Henry Wilkinson and John Roberts who traded as Wilkinson & Roberts.The firm's cronology is: John Roberts (1836), Roberts & Hall ( 1846), Martin Hall & Co (1854), Martin Hall & Co Ltd (1866-1936). Martin Hall & Co was one of the best known British manufacturers and partecipated to many international exhibitions including the Crystal Palace 1851 Great Exhibition. They had also a line of production in electroplate and in a patented white metal called "Martinoid".
Sheffield 1886 hallmark
Info source: http://www.silvercollection.it/englishsilvermarksXM.html

However, I'm confused that there doesn't seem to be a match with the Sheffield date marks.
http://www.governmentauctionsuk.com/hallmarks/sheffield.htm

So I'm gonna let someone else respond on the rest.




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ironlord1963

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Re: Silver Pitcher, Ivory, Etching on bottom...
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2009, 08:03:13 am »
Tales is right about it being a Martin Hall,  The E P N S markings stand for Electro Plate Nickle silver, the bottom number would be pattern number.

luxetveritas

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Re: Silver Pitcher, Ivory, Etching on bottom...
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2009, 08:18:38 am »
Right on Tales and Ironlord. Beautiful pitcher too, reminds me of the Open Championship cup in golf :D

skipnyamaha

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Re: Silver Pitcher, Ivory, Etching on bottom...
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2009, 08:32:35 am »
I spoke with the person who owns this and wants to sell it for $4500 and I'm not sure if this is insanely overpriced or just around the ballpark for it's appropriate value.  If anyone has any idea on value which I understand is only based upon on how much some one is willing to pay.  Thanks a lot, Robert

ironlord1963

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Re: Silver Pitcher, Ivory, Etching on bottom...
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2009, 10:32:27 am »
Wow that is way overpriced.   If in great condition you may get $50.00.  This is silverplate not true silver.  The style and period is most likely late victorian, this is why you may get $50.00.  One can pick up a silverplated pot for $20.00 to $30.00 in great condition but not as nice as this one.

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: Silver Pitcher, Ivory, Etching on bottom...
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2009, 10:41:06 am »
I bet the seller is mistaken and doesn't realize it is plated, not sterling. The EPNS is deliberately done so similar to a date mark as to make the piece mislead an uninformed buyer that it has the date hallmarks. It threw me, I couldn't figure out why there were so many letters when there should have only been one! I recall reading about pieces where they did this for exactly that reason. They are being honest by labeling it EPNS, but on the other hand it is disguised to look like something it is not. You might talk to the owner and discuss some of this with him/her. Arm yourself with some print outs from different Web sites where they talk about EPNS hallmarks.
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skipnyamaha

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Re: Silver Pitcher, Ivory, Etching on bottom...
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2009, 11:32:03 am »
OOOOF!  I can assure you the people I am checking into this for are NOT going to be happy with that response.  They were under the impression this was highly valuable and like I said wanted upwards of $4500 for it.  Good thing you guys don't have to break the bad news to them.....Thanks everybody for all your help.  It wasn't necessarily good news but thats ok.  Much appreciative, Robert

KC

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Re: Silver Pitcher, Ivory, Etching on bottom...
« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2009, 01:23:52 pm »
Well, I guess you could print out this information and take it to them.  It never feels good to find out that the items we thing are worth $$$$ are worth $.

Like the others said, many times manufacturers made items with lots of markings to confuse the uninformed (and many times the informed) BUT the saving grace is that EPNS was required on electro-plated items to keep them from selling it as solid silver and to try and protect the consumer public!

So sorry your friends are to be disappointed. 
I'm from the South - but please don't mistake my Southern Manners/Accent/Charm as a weakness!

luxetveritas

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Re: Silver Pitcher, Ivory, Etching on bottom...
« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2009, 10:43:39 pm »
Too bad about the piece, it is extremely nice. If silver, I think it may be a few thousand, but seeing as it is plated it will be worth a lot less (as everyone else is saying). At a well publicized auction this could sell for $150 or maybe $200, but probably not anywhere else (but this has to be a prominent auction house in a large city- I'm not talking Sotheby's but someplace like Skinner). The latter is a higher hope, but it is also possible that it would only sell for $50. Auctions are very unpredictable. Things often sell for 5 times as much as the predicted value or 5 times less than the predicted value. Just depends. Good luck!

D&b antiques

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Re: Silver Pitcher, Ivory, Etching on bottom...
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2009, 07:57:02 am »
Luxetveritas that is very good view point. typically it's and Appraiser's job to track down at least Three auction value's to compare a value of said Item.

Preferably in the same year. of which is almost impossible. and auction is all most impossible to say a confirmed value unless it has a reserve.

the prices vary, from north south east west.