Author Topic: antique horn enquiry  (Read 2790 times)

crazybones

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antique horn enquiry
« on: August 16, 2010, 11:24:08 pm »
i really have no idea what this is, i think it might be a scottish war horn but i am obviously open to other ideas. I found it on vancouver island in the forest and it has been laying around for a couple years in my house. any help what so ever would greatly be appreciated.
wondering the history of it and if it's worth anything at all.
thanks' for the the help!

waywardangler

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Re: antique horn enquiry
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2010, 12:22:46 am »
It is a powder horn for a muzzleloader.  Can't tell from the pics how large it is so it may be either a primer horn or a regular horn.  A primer horn was small and was used to prime a flintlock (usually held smaller granule size blackpowder).  A larger or regular size horn held the blackpowder for the powder that went down the muzzle.  Many of these flat horns were used by people of Scandinavian descent. Flat horns are made by boiling the horns in water to soften them and pressing them in a vise until they are cool to hold the flat shape. Nice basket weave design on the side.  Looks like the stopper and butt plug are missing?  As to value, the quality of finish and the scrimshaw add more to the value than anything else and it is hard to tell from the pics (condition) what shape it is in or how well done it is.  I would guess about $40 on the low side to $200 if it is nice and at least the butt plug is there.  I have seen them priced higher but those usually have names and dates engraved in the horn.

sapphire

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Re: antique horn enquiry
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2010, 04:04:33 am »
crazybones if your horn is flat, as it appears, it is reminiscent of Scottish powderhorns. The designs are definitely Celtic. As to the age and authenticity, you'd likely need expert, hands on experience.

Here is a reproduction Jacobite powderhorn. While many horns incorporated metal, other materials were used to enclose it as well.

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/jacobite-powder-horn-scottish-celtic

"The plug is of walnut while the spout is bone. The stopper is of antler that has been lathe turned and carved to resemble a thistle"

 
Below is a pic of a modern reproduction used in today's ceremonies and reenactments. You'll find a lot more info online by searching Scottish, Celtic or Jacobite........but I feel you'll need an expert to really answer the burning question as to it's origin.


sapphire

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Re: antique horn enquiry
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2010, 04:33:32 am »
And a bit more...

"Powder horns (from the 1881 Ancient Scotish Weapons)
The Highland Powder Horn is distinguished from all others by its peculiarities of form and ornament. It is made from a neat's horn, flattened, and fitted with a wooden bottom, and a plug for the mouth, which is frequently also encircled with a mounting of lead."

http://www.tartansauthority.com/highland-dress/highland-weapons

I believe the reference to Highland is also significant, in that Highlanders were considered a much 'lower class' than those of the Lowlands. The Highlanders were Scotland's warriors so more the necessity for easy portability, hence the flat form......where you most often see beautiful examples of powder horns in their original shape bearing ornate sterling attachments and often stones, more fitting for the 'upper classes'.

I would love to see clearer pictures of the detail. Rather partial to anything Celtic, inherited from both sides of the family.  A trait that has been passed on to another generation.

Youngest daughter's Celtic armband........



cogar

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Re: antique horn enquiry
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2010, 08:58:03 am »
A Scottish powderhorn, ...... found in the forest, ..... on Vancouver Island, ..... sure does make for a mystry in my opinion.

To survive that long in the woods is a miracle in itself because rodents, etc., love to chew on/eat animal horn.

But the big question is, who lost it and when? ??? ???

sapphire

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Re: antique horn enquiry
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2010, 09:58:12 am »
Well the Scots were definitely a part of Vancouver history....

http://www.vancouverhistory.ca/archives_scots.htm


And Vancouver Island....

http://www.vancouverisland.com/attractions/?id=45

http://www.scotland.org/features/item/a-thistle-wrapped-in-maple-leaves/

"Whether they came willingly to make their fortunes, or to escape the Highland Clearances, the early Scots left an indelible imprint on Canada. Among the most celebrated were Lanark–born James Douglas, the 'Father of BC', who helped develop a remote trading post on Vancouver Island into the province of British Columbia"

I would say it would be well worth your time to contact Simon Fraser Univ. and UBC archives and local history personnel to see if you can put some history to your horn.

sapphire

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Re: antique horn enquiry
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2010, 10:08:20 am »
Going further back in time.......

http://www.electricscotland.com/history/america/fur_trappers.htm

"This emphasis on schooling and scientific advances helped produce some of the first explorers of the North American West. The range of first hand Scottish western adventurers is remarkable. One should probably begin with the story of James Cook. Son of a Scots farm worker who had moved to the Yorkshire town of Marton, Cook rose rapidly in the service of the British navy. Later he entered historical legend as the "Pacific Columbus," for just as Columbus "discovered" America en route to India, Cook "discovered" Hawaii while searching for the elusive Northwest Passage.

On March 29, 1778, Cook’s flagship the Revolution, with a companion vessel, Discovery, sailed into what is now Nootka Sound on Vancouver Island. They remained there almost a month, recording detailed scientific, geographical, and meteorological data of the region. Although Cook was a naval officer, not a businessman, he anticipated that great profits could be made by trading British goods for fur from the Natives. Unfortunately, the most famous Scottish sea captain of his generation died the next year in Hawaii; his crew returned to Britain in 1780.

Six years later, a ship named in his honor, Captain Cook, deposited another Scot in the region, surgeon John Mackay. Mackay had volunteered to spend a year living with the Nootka natives. Supplied with paper, pens, and ink, plus a Native wife, Mackay gradually learned the language and customs of his hosts. Although Mackay’s records eventually proved disappointing, his venture still ranks as the first attempt at serious New World ethnography."