Author Topic: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?  (Read 3065 times)

riveroaks1

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« on: November 08, 2011, 02:40:47 pm »
I have an authentic Matthew Boulton tea urn from about 1800.  It was replated by my great-grandmother in 1928 by the Silverode company.  On the bottom it reads "Silverode" - plus it has the original sun marks from Boulton.

Was the value diminished greatly by the replating?

Thanks,
Paul

mart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19849
  • Karma: +122/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2011, 03:21:52 pm »
Can you post a pic of the tea urn ??  Hard to tell without seeing what kind of condition it is in now !! Did the company do a good job of replating it ??  If the urn`s finish had worn to the point that it needed replating to bring it back to its original condition,,,I don`t think it would have a detrimental effect on value or if so it would be minimal !!  You always want the original finish if possible,, but these items were used and polished over the years and if the plate had worn to that point,, I don`t see a major problem with it !!  If it is ever sold,, you do need to disclose this fact to any potential buyer !!

ironlord1963

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2330
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
    • Ironlord's Treasure Chest
Re: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2011, 09:46:03 am »
    If it was replated that long ago, I doubt that it will affect the value, the only issue with replating is it usually cost more then the item is worth to have it done.  The only other thing to note, is you said that it is a plated item from 1800, Silverplate really never came into until the mid 1800's and really did not see much until the Late 1800, like 1870's in to the early 1900's. 

mart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19849
  • Karma: +122/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2011, 10:04:45 am »
Matthew Boulton 1728 to 1809 began making silverplate using the Sheffield process in 1762 !!  Although it was not available to many people until the mid 1800`s when the process was less expensive to produce !! Some of Boultons pieces in sterling can range $40 to $50 thousand !! Not sure about his plated pieces !!

Rauville

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1812
  • Karma: +109/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2011, 04:23:35 pm »
Compared to a vintage automobile; what would you rather have? A vehicle that needed restoration, or one that you could show with pride? In this case, I don't believe that an older well executed re-plating would affect the current value to the extreme.

mart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19849
  • Karma: +122/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« Reply #5 on: November 09, 2011, 06:05:36 pm »
I agree Rauville !!

ironlord1963

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2330
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
    • Ironlord's Treasure Chest
Re: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2011, 08:28:12 pm »
     Yes I stand corrected on the Silverplate Mart, except they call that sheffied plate and the process was very intensive and expensive, and not actaully what is called Electro silver plate.  I did not catch the Boulton part for some reason. In that case if you had a sheffield plated item and then electoplated it, that would really affect the value.  most sheffied plate items that are out there have lost their plate and and still worth a good penny.  I have only seen one sheffield plate item with my own eyes and it had lost 90% of it plate and was still worth several hundred dollars. 

mart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19849
  • Karma: +122/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2011, 06:28:36 am »
I guess it would depend on the method used to replate !! I find quite a bit of sheffield plate here but it is the more modern type of thin silver over copper !!  It is getting a bit scarce though since copper prices went through the roof !!

ironlord1963

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2330
  • Karma: +10/-0
    • View Profile
    • Ironlord's Treasure Chest
Re: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2011, 09:21:24 am »
    Yea this can be a confusing issue when dealing with Silverplate, But since the only way to replate would be Electroplating, I feel it would really destroy the value IMO.  a lot of old sheffield plate has been replated, and can be hard to find untouch pieces, at least what I have read in my books.  Old Sheffield plate is made by fusing a layer of silver on copper in sheets before the item is made.   I found a tidbit on Wiki that gives a basic ideal of Sheffield plate and how to possiblely spot a fake.  Thought I would add this to help up learn a bit more about the difference between Silver Plate, Sheffield Plate, and Old Sheffield Plate.

 The Sheffield plating process is not often used today, as after about 1840 it was generally replaced with electroplating processes, such as that of George Elkington. Electroplating tends to produce a "brilliant" surface with a hard color — as it consists of pure rather than sterling silver and it is usually deposited more thinly. Sheffield plate continued to be used for up to a further 100 years for silver plated articles subject to heavy wear, most commonly uniform buttons and tankards. During the 1840-50 period hybrid articles such as sugar bowls were produced with the body being Old Sheffield and complicated small parts such as the feet and handles made from electroplate. These are rare and seldom recognised.

Much Old Sheffield seen today has been re-plated, especially items which received much use and polishing such as candlesticks. Items seldom displayed or used, such as egg cruets or soufflé dishes, are often in excellent condition and so may be confused with electroplate. Collectors should be aware that many designs have been reproduced in electroplate, with those from the early 1900s being the hardest to recognise since, like the original items, they seldom have a makers mark. The way to recognise the genuine article is to look for signs that it was soldered from pre-plated metal sheet or wire rather than constructed in base metal and plated afterwards. Look carefully for soldered joints, often well-disguised by the experts of the time.

The term "Sheffield Plate" is widely used these days by those dealing in electroplate produced in Sheffield and most collectors prefer to use the term "Old Sheffield Plate" to identify the early fused plate product described on this page. Another misuse of the term is in describing "Close Plated" ware which was generally made in Birmingham in the first half of 19th century. Close plate consists of silver foil soldered onto a steel base and was used for items such as candle snuffers or cutlery requiring greater strength than fused plate.


mfrog

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 29
  • Karma: +0/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2011, 11:31:36 am »
It's worth noting, that old sheffield plate, the real stuff is never marked as "Sheffield Plate"  On real sheffield, you should be able to see the line where the silver is laid on, also if the piece has a crest or initials on it, those are put in with a piece of sterling, you should be able to huff your breath on the edges of that & see the line where it was put in.

snowflake

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 959
  • Karma: +4/-0
    • View Profile
    • The Flutter Bee
Re: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2011, 11:41:58 am »
Thanks for sharing all this information. It sure is helpful!

talesofthesevenseas

  • Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6124
  • Karma: +35/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2011, 05:39:05 pm »
Replating was recently discussed on Antiques Roadshow during a segment about "car mascots" or fancy hood ornaments. The piece that had been replated was a Rolls Royce hood ornament. In the case of the hood ornament, the owner wanted it to look nice and shiney and it was in use on the car. You can't exactly have a beautifully restored Rolls with a chippy peely hood ornament. However, it devalued the hood ornament by about 25% according to the expert. The owner elected to devalue it for the sake of making it useable, rather that putting it on a shelf in original condition.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/fts/grandrapids_200805F01.html
I think your ancestors did basically the same thing by replating. This is just one example, but yes replating can have both a negative effect in value and a positive effect in usefulness, just like refinishing furniture devalues it.
Antiqueaholic in recovery

mart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19849
  • Karma: +122/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Georgian Silver Plate: Worth less after replating?
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2011, 06:18:17 pm »
Well,, we can only hope that the rarity of Boulton pieces will make up for the grandparent having replated it !!  I wouls sure love to see it though !!  He made some beautiful silver pieces !!