Author Topic: Questions about maker of federal card table  (Read 11497 times)

mart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19849
  • Karma: +122/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2012, 09:17:39 am »
I am still waiting to hear back on this table !! btw Jacon4 that W&M piece of yours is fantastic as well !!  Can`t watch videos,, dial up you know, but would love to read the article if possible !!

jacon4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1807
  • Karma: +20/-0
  • collector/ student of early american furniture
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2012, 09:29:30 am »
  Mart,
 Dang, cant watch the video huh, that sucks. The video is all there is as far as i know. In any event, it describes some construction details that were peculiar to Phyfe and, if they are not present in a piece, send up a red flag. As i pointed out in previous post, there is really no way to authenticate a period piece of furniture with photo's alone, it's gotta be examined in person by someone who knows the object at hand and is familiar with construction details of a particular maker.
Yeah, i am interested to know what happened to this table as well, hopefully he'll post and fill us in.

mart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19849
  • Karma: +122/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2012, 09:56:47 am »
Dial up sucks big time !! But thats the way it is in the country unless you want to pay an arm & leg !! I know that the makers did not mark furniture for various reasons and it makes identification a bit difficult !!  One of my first books on antiques was "The Directoire of American Furniture" !!   It was my bible on furniture for a long time !!  But here in Texas we rarely get an opportunity to actually see period furniture much less touch and examine it !!  Closest we usually get are all those repro pieces !!  Even though many dealers and estate sales never bother to say that !! Thats one reason I like this forum,,occassionally get to see really good furniture as well as other items !!

frogpatch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1620
  • Karma: +23/-0
    • View Profile
    • Gary Cunnane
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2012, 03:29:54 pm »
I was going to suggest the Keno brothers but someone already did. They will be excited to see this piece I am sure. I just spent an hour trying to find a table from that period with those legs and could not find a single example. The fact that you know the history of your family makes me think your are right on the money with the period. I can't wait to see what you find out. Thanks so much for sharing this. I really enjoyed seeing it. Here in NJ a piece will turn up at an estate sale once in a while for an astronomical price. Occasionally someone find a piece in a basement with six coats of paint but not very often. In thirty years I found two period chairs in bad shape. Aside from the big empire stuff that no one wanted. Never anything like this. This is the stuff antique geeks dream of.

dr612

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2012, 07:46:08 pm »
Thanks for all your input and interest.  Since I first posted these pictures, I have had the table examined in person by three antique dealers/appraisers, Winston Garth of Garth's Auction and Antiques (here in Pensacola), John Dwight Stevens, of Stevens Auctions in Aberdeen, MS, and Ann Benton, of Americana Advisors, who worked in New York with Federal furniture for a number of years.  I also have sent these photos to two Federal furniture dealers in NY and Conn.   All five have indicated that they believe it is a period Federal New York table.  Mr. Stevens estimated around 1800, Mr Garth,  "early 1800s." 

As far as pinning it down to Phyfe's workshop, the substrate of the table is made of joined mahogany boards, rather than white pine, which Jesse Goldberg of Artemis Galleries has stated was one of the indicia of Phyfe.  They have separated over time in two places and created the veneer cracks that Jacon4 was referencing.  I think that the most telling feature is the carved cabriole legs, which are quite out of the norm for that time period.  However, there is a very small number of known tables with these legs.  Two are the card tables from the Garvan collection at Yale, one is a dressing table known to have been made for Phyfe's grandniece, and the fourth is a work table sold by Christies in 1998.  The lot notes for that sale state:

"The design of this work table successfully combines sinuous curves and geometric casework to create one of the most sophisticated and elegant forms from New York's Classical era. Attenuated cabriole legs on classical furniture are rare and only found on a small group of card tables, work tables and a dressing table. This work table most closely resembles a pair of card tables in the collection of Yale University Art Gallery illustrated here with waterleaf-carved legs, paw feet and almost identical carved rosettes on the canted corners above the legs. A dressing table that descended in the family of Emily Phyfe Dunham, Duncan Phyfe's grandniece, bears legs similar to those on the Yale card tables and the work table offered here and provides the basis for the attribution to Phyfe's shop (Nancy McClelland, Duncan Phyfe and the English Regency (New York, 1939), pl. 152). The remaining examples in this group all feature reeded legs and lack waterleaf carving (a card table sold in these Rooms, The Collection of Ronald Kane, 22 January 1994, lot 376; a work table sold at Sotheby's New York, 28-30 January 1988, lot 1810; a work table sold at Sotheby's New York, 23-24 June 1993, lot 455)."

I was going to attach a photo of the underside of the table showing the joined mahogany substrate (as well as showing braces which have been attached to the underside to stabilize the veneer cracks.) However, I can can't seem to figure out how to attach a photo in the reply mode.

Sorry for the length of the post, but I am cautiously optimistic that this amazing table can be attributed to Phyfe or his workshop, and so far it appears to be one of a kind.  Any further insights or information that you have would be a great help.

dr612

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2012, 08:30:24 pm »
I think I have figured out the picture problem.  Here are photos showing the underside (substrate) of the table. 

mart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19849
  • Karma: +122/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2012, 08:54:20 pm »
Did I read you correctly that the person said Phyfe did or did not use mahogany as secondary wood ??  All I have read said that he used a great deal of mahogany as secondary wood !!

dr612

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2012, 09:05:14 pm »
A piece that I recently read by the owner of Artemis Galleries, Jesse Goldberg, said that unlike most of his contemporaries, Phyfe used mahogany boards for the substrate of his card tables.  The commonly used wood (for substrates) at the time was white pine.  Mahogany is denser than pine, and should not shrink as much with time.  However, since the tabletop is fixed by screws to the table rail at the outer edge, any shrinkage across the grain of the substrate boards would create cracks in the veneer, which is what commonly happened.

If I can locate a link to that article I will post it.




mart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19849
  • Karma: +122/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2012, 06:06:29 am »
That is what I have read also !! Mahogany should be the secondary wood !! Just didn`t quite get that sentence !!

jacon4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1807
  • Karma: +20/-0
  • collector/ student of early american furniture
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2012, 06:11:31 am »
Neat! Yes, i figured those legs would be of primary interest as they are not in the "normal"  fashion of federal era furniture (sheraton,hepplewhite,classical). Thats one of the cool things about old American furniture, it was VERY fluid in how they adapted designs of other countries furniture fashion to american taste. In england for instance, there was a rigid guild system that cabinetmakers worked under which tended to stamp out innovation in how furniture was built and looked. Not so in america where furniture makers were free to explore all manner of building & design features which is often frustrating today when trying to determine the who, where & when of days long past. Thus, it's quite common to find "unique" or one of a kind pieces in american furniture forms. Basically, American cabinetmakers & the clients they served, just didnt give a damn about what the fashionista's in europe thought about american design adaptations in furniture.

mart

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 19849
  • Karma: +122/-1
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2012, 06:28:09 am »
If I remember correctly the Metropolitan Museum has a well documented piece by Phyfe with the cabriole leg !! Quite similar to this table !! Hope my memory is right !! It was unusual form for the time !!

dr612

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2012, 08:37:43 am »
You are right, they do.  It is a window seat, so the legs are chair length, but the form, carving and feet are identical.  If you noticed, the regency chair shown in the video (at about 3:30 mark) also uses this leg, although again chair length.

Here is a photo of the Met's window seat.

jacon4

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1807
  • Karma: +20/-0
  • collector/ student of early american furniture
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2012, 09:17:19 am »
If you havent already, it might be worth sending Elizabeth Adler at Hirschl & Adler an email and see if she replies, they seem to have alot of NYC federal stuff in their gallery with a particular interest in Phyfe.

dr612

  • New Member
  • *
  • Posts: 41
  • Karma: +1/-0
    • View Profile
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2012, 12:09:22 pm »
That is a good idea, and I will want to do that.  She seems pretty knowledgeable about Phyfe.  One thing that I have found with dealers, and it's not a criticism, is that unless you want to sell the item, they don't want to spend a lot of time on it.  Perfectly understandable, as they are in business to earn a living.  Since they are Phyfe experts, she may want to see this as it is so out of the mainstream.  I have an email address for her, so I will do that.  Let you know what she says. 

frogpatch

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1620
  • Karma: +23/-0
    • View Profile
    • Gary Cunnane
Re: Questions about maker of federal card table
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2012, 12:43:43 pm »
This thread is as fascinating as a good history channel TV show. I can't wait for the next episode. I am learning a great deal from it. Thanks again for posting this.