Antique 18th Century Copper Creamer/Ewer?

[KevinM]

This is a hand made copper creamer, ewer or pitcher that I purchased a few months ago and have looked at over 1000 images trying to find one like it without success.

I think that this creamer is possibly from the 18th Century but it could be a little older or newer and it might be English or perhaps Dutch. It measures about 6 3/4 inches in Height and about 6 inches in Width at it's widest point between the tip of the spout and the outside of the handle.

The are a few things about this creamer that I should point out. The outside looks like it has had a clear coat of some type put on it many years ago, it could be shellac or something else. There is a number engraved in the bottom (6567 G), I don't think it is original to the creamer and was placed on it at a much later point in time.

The creamer seems to have copper rivets on it with the exception of what looks like an 18th or 19th Century nail placed in it where the lid hing is to hold the lid on. The Nail may have been put in it to hold the lid on at a later point in time when perhaps the original copper rivet wore out.

What I would like to know is what period of time or century was this copper creamer made, is it a creamer or something else and what is the origin or where it was made? Also, what would be the time period for the Nail that was used in the Lid Hing.

Thanks for all info!
Kevin

[bigwull]

The inside looks to have been tinned,which makes it able to hold a liquid thats fit to pour down yer neck,By the design of it and the fact that its made of copper...and has the tin coating.lends me to believe that it could have been made during the Arts & crafts period...1860 ..1910,...thats my guesstimate...now to try and find something that,s not a guess

[KevinM]

bigwull, thanks, it certainly could be from the arts and crafts period, I'm not sure though. Here's some more images of the nail, copper rivets and seam.

[mart]

ok Kewv,, lets use our noggin !!  first,, color is wrong for something of that age !!  in your bottom left pic the nails look old but at the top right, same pic there is what looks to be a perfect little round one !! if it had been coated later as you think,,what would the reason have been,, i mean its just a creamer,, no big deal and not worth that much,, same for the number on bottom that was done with an electric engraver,, why ??  nunmber is too big to have been for someones household items !!  I think you have a fairly new one that was done with old methods  and there are many of these from Czeckoslovakia and that area as well as France and Mexico !!

[bigwull]

I don,t profess to be an expert,...i,m just a retired wood butcher...but having said that..just becuae it has an electro inscribed number,does,nt neccessarily mean it is new,or newish,..perhaps someone put that number there  as an id number,...we have some antique items here that have been marked in a similar fashion..out of sight but still there,..as for the colour being wrong...perhaps the last owner did,nt like yukky green verdi-gris...

[mart]

but would they have had the inclination to go to a heck of a lot of trouble to apply a clear coat of lacquer !!  its hard to find and harder to apply evenly just because they didn`t want to spend 10 minutes cleaning it ??  doesn`t make sense to me !! 

[bigwull]

maybe, they did,nt like polishing,...but yes i see your point,..

[KevinM]

mart, the perfect little round spot to the right of the nail is a lacquer bubble. There is only 1 nail in this creamer and it's the one in that same picture holding the lid handle on. The rest are copper rivets. I checked the whole ewer with a magnet, that is the only magnetic piece on it.

As to why they coated it was probably to keep it shinny after it was polished up for show only. In the early 20th century shellac was used a lot on items to preserve them, baseballs, documents, etc...

The number I thought may have been put on at a later date and used as an id or inventory number perhaps. I agree that someone went through a lot of trouble to try and preserve this item as if it was in the family for a long time and they wanted to keep it clean and display it.

There is some legacy to this item I am sure. I don't think someone would go through all the trouble to make a replica or fake item in this fashion since these items are generally not worth that much.

I think if I can date the nail it may help date the piece. But, the nail does look like it was hammered through at a later date to keep the lid on since the original copper rivet may have fallen out from years of use.

[mart]

its not that they are fake,, just that its 20th century and in some places still being made with old methods !!   look on ebay !!  earlier today looked at several !! that flat handle blew it for me as an old item !!

[KevinM]

mart, not sure I'm on board with the flat handle analysis, but ok, thanks.

[bbc-antiques.co.uk]

I think its quite modern being a Turkish coffee pot !

[mart]

quite possibly is !!

[bigwull]

Turkish coffee with enough caffeine to make yer toes curl....and their ice cold frappe,s loverly....

[KC]

Coffee pot.  Agree about the handle style!

The hard part for collectors these days...is that people love the old look now (which wasn't the case in the past)!  So, making new items look old has become an art.  And those that haven't researched or grown up around the "true" older items....are easily convinced.  Even then....there are those that have been around...and there are old items that are made so unique/out of character with the era that are hard to identify.

So, now that I have confused the issue...I do not believe that this is a real old item from the visual/pics.  Kinda has a mish-mash of construction styles.

[mart]

the flat handle is the easiest and fastest way to make one,, just take a strip of metal, bend it to shape and attach !! little care was taken when making these !!  older items such as this were created by excellent metalsmiths !!  they would not have taken the easy route !!  their reputation was in the care taken and the quality of the items they produced !!  this one looks thrown together as fast as possible !!