While researching I stumbled across this bit of info. from
www.collectorscircl e.comThought it might help someone else..
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"" First, if the mark says, "Royal Vienna," it is not the Imperial and Royal Porcelain Manufactory, Vienna. No ifs, ands, or buts about it; it is a fake!
The bindenschild (shield) in the mark was a rendition of the center of the Coat-of-Arms for the royal Austrian Habsburg family. The Imperial and Royal Porcelain Manufactory used the marks impressed in the clay or blue ink underglaze from 1744 until 1864. Just because it is a blue underglaze mark or impressed mark that does not make it authentic. Don't be fooled.
Most imitations of the mark are the shield upside down thus it appears to be a beehive. Even many of the true marks turned upside down will look like a beehive. In Rontgen's book "Marks on German, Bohemian, and Austrian Porcelain," page 575-576 Rontgen discusses the marks. To detect imitations of the true mark the book has the following guides,
Pieces with forged Vienna marks are usually heavily decorated with mythological or historical scenes, often with a description of the scene on the bottom. Quite a number of urns, vases and especially plates are signed "Angelica Kauffmann."
1. Any Bindenschild blue overglaze is a forgery. In the early years of the manufactory, circa 1744-1749, the shield occasionally was painted red, purple, black or gold overglaze, but never blue.
2. Any Bindenschild that is stamped blue underglaze or overglaze and shows perfect symmetry and shape is not a mark of the Vienna manufactory.
3. If inscriptions, signatures or letters are arranged in a way that the mark appears as a beehive, it is not the mark of the Vienna manufactory.
4. All impressed number, except 0-60 (molders and turners), 84-99 and 800-864 (year numbers from 1784-1864) are indications of a forgery.
5. Letters, words or shapes in gold overglaze are indications for forgeries. If a part of the bottom is covered with a golden shape, this shape usually hides the original manufacturers mark.
6. Any number over 155 painted in color overglaze is not an identification number of a decorator of the Vienna manufactory.
7. Any number over 27 blue underglaze is not the number of a decorator of the Vienna manufactory.
8. Any bottom description of a decoration or scene indicates that the piece was not decorated in the Vienna manufactory.
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I still can't seem to locate an example of the "sheild" [not beehive] that is stamped on these 2 pieces so I'm growing curiouser and curiouser...
