Old mortar and bell

[andy111]

I bought these 2 bronze items, any info about them? are they genuine? dates, values etc would be much appreciated, any info at all.
mortar

http://i.imgur.com/bCJtJGL.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/g1dCtGe.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/QG6clbQ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/dPpt4kt.jpg

bell
http://i.imgur.com/X4YxRbY.jpg

i found this:
http://www.kahnfineantiques.com/index.cfm?ImgId=536

which is almost identical to the bell so im guessing like they say, probably English circa 1680?

[mart]

No,, that is not an English or French bell !!  Pretty sure !!  Where did you get these items ??

[andy111]

auction. i did an amateur/botchjob cleanup on them with water prior

but i believe the mortar could be a reproduction or something? the bell is genuinley old though i'm sure, i can get a pic of the inside

[mart]

Water or damp cloth is all you need to do !! Do not clean with anything stronger than that !!  Did you buy at a U.S. auction ??

[KC]

From the pictures you have posted I would say there is no way to really date this piece like I think you are wanting.  With pieces like this reproductions are made that after a few years and with modern use of patina/chemicals - it really takes a hands on and close up inspection to determine the age. 

Are there any foundry or makers' marks (look with magnifying glass). 

I would like to know where you are located and/or where the auction was as well.  Not that is the answer of the bell but helps many times.

[andy111]

thanks for the info guys. i'm from england. i bought the 2 items at an auction (Durrant's). there was no info for the items, just listed as "antiques"

they were sold together

[andy111]

ther are no marks anywhere on the items. those pics are in the harshest light possible btw. the mortar looks great irl even if it is a repro! but i hope theres some info

[andy111]

[mart]

http://www.silive.com/homegarden/index.ssf/2012/10/mortars_add_spice_to_a_collect.html

Look at the three here to compare !!  The bell I think is maybe Turkish or from that area !!  The mortar is very crudely made and that screams repro to me !!  The truly old ones are well crafted and are meant to be used and even handed down in families !!
This one has been artificially worn and the dark patina it should have likely came from a bottle !!