Pirken Hammer Pope Benedikt XV Plate 1915

[AthenaAlex72]

Hi there,
Wanted to throw this out for any comments, advice, ideas on what this plate is worth.  

After my grandmother passed away over 15 years ago, I was digging around in the basement to find dishes for my first appartment, recently I had it on display on my hutch and while dusting, discovered what it said on the back!

 I've gotten a little help on ebay and have seen a set of 12 papal service plates on ebay going for 2,600.00 with the reserve not met.

I welcome all comments!

Here are links to pictures of the front and back:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/mar...01/P1010045.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e376/mar...01/P1010047.jpg

Please let me know if anyone cannot access these links.

Thanks a bunch!!

Jennifer
 

[kerryandbee]

you can also see a pic of this plate - without the Papal Seal - here - though there are none "in stock" -

http://www.replacements.com/webquote/PIR6719.htm

I'll continue researching for you tho' - to me it's interesting that the pieces have the backstamp written in English - conjecture that if it were for the Pope's personal service - in any of the official papal residences - that it would be written in Latin the official church language in the Vatican.  Or even in German which I believe was Benedikt's original language.  Wonder how papal dinnerware ended up in the USA.  Could it have been a commemorative issue available to religous groups in the USA?

Gorgeous plates aren't they?   KB

[kerryandbee]

here's a site with Pirken-Hammer marks.  Your plate appears like the one labeled from 1918 - 1938 with the Pirken on one side and Hammer on the other and with Czechoslovakia written straight across.  

Pirkenhammer is still in business.  They've been known to authenticate marks from their old records and your pics are great. If I were you I'd contact them even if I had to snail mail pics to them.  And they do show a black & white photo of a set first made in the mid-1800's called "Vatican".  It looks a lot like yours but doesn't have the seal in the center.  

Handpainting a set for a Pope elected in 1915 could very well take time to finish - so the actual production date could be later than 1915.  Czechoslovakia didn't become a country until 1918.  All this being said I believe your plate is very old and has a high value.  Watch the auction site.  They'll be back.  

Ssome web sites refer to a line of Pirkenhammer porcelain as "Vatikan".

A nice treasure.   KB

[AthenaAlex72]

I also visited ginny's site about the markings and the date of the busines at that corresponding time.  The plate dates 1915. But the company assigned to the mark is a later date... hmmm... Don't know what that means.  In addition the plate has a number hand painted in red "6719"...The same# is what I've seen of the rest of the collection as well.  So not a number in a series but an identifier I guess.  You mentioned a website in your second post but I don't see the link.  When you get a minute I'd appreciate the link.

Thank you so much!
Jennifer
 

[kerryandbee]

here's the Pirkenhammer current site - it's not so user friendly but you can at least get their address or e-mail address.  I think that should be your next step.   You might ask them if the Papal Porcelain was widely available in the USA and where a person would have acquired it.

http://www.pirken-hammer.com/ads.html

I'm still looking for an e-mail address for the Vatican.  I did learn on the V.'s official web site that each pope is free to decorate his private apartments to his own taste.  

Oh, and correction to my earlier post:  Benedict XV wasn't German.  He was Italian.  B. XVI is German.  Sorry.   #6719 is a pattern number.  Consistent with the e-bay plates, yours, and the pic on replacements.  
  KB

[Mickey Billy]

Hello, curious if any additional information was ever located about these Papal Plates? Thank you.

[mart]

This  was posted way before my time here !!  Some of the other members have been here longer than I have,, maybe they will know more !!

[SophieMarie]

Hello,

I'm new to the forum but did find an article that states:

Pirkenhammer is known to have made fine porcelains for royalty throughout Europe as well as the Papacy. One of the most beautiful sets produced was made in 1915 for Pope Benedict XV.

Your plate is shown on the site:

http://wslmf.org/discover/articles/pirkenhammer/

There is a contact link on the page and I think they would be able to provide more information on pricing and perhaps a selling route.

Here is another site with Papal artifacts for Pope Benedict XV, also with a contact option:

http://www.papalartifacts.com/pope-benedict-xv/

I would contact them as well!

[SophieMarie]

Here's a set of 12 plates which sold for $1600.00 in 2013:

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/16345013_a-set-of-12-continental-service-plates

And then, a set of 10 plates which sold for $406.00 in 2017:

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-lot/set-of-ten-pirkenhammer-gilt-and-polychrome-decor-481-c-4994658b03

[mart]

Good work SophieMarie !!  Brownie point !!

[ghopper1924]

Yep, good work!  I didn't notice that the first post was 12 years old! 

[KC]

Although it is an older post, for those that cannot pull up the images here they are:

[mart]

Thanks KC  Very nice plates !!