walthem pocket watch?

[graderman]

I believe this to be a walthem pocket watch from my research, but it doesn't have a name on it. It has a crown with the # 18 under it on the inside of the front cover. It says patente fulle jewelled on the back cover & the serial # on the clock works is96644. any help with ID. or a value would be appreciated.

[syl]

I'm wondering why you think it is a Waltham? The writing on the back looks like French and Waltham was an American Co. although the case and movement could have been made by different companies. If you look up Waltham on Wikipedia there is lots of info including ways to look up serial nos. It does look really old and possibly quite valuable.

[waywardangler]

I agree with syl in that I do not think this is Waltham.  If it was Waltham it would date to 1876-77 by the serial number and would be marked on the face and on the movement.  If you look at the movement of an 1877 Waltham watch, the finish work is like night and day in comparison.  Watchmakers took great pride in their finish work and you will see a lot of engine turning and engraving (including their name) on their movements.  The movement and finish on this unmarked watch looks pretty plain although there is some engine turning visible on one plate.  The crown over the 18 on the inside cover is most likely the mark of the case maker and not the watch movement maker.  I would guess this is foreign in manufacture (English, Swiss, or French).  If you are in a large city, I would ask an old, established jeweler (not Kay or Goodman, etc.) about old watchmakers or collectors in your area that could look at it in person.  There might be some marks or hallmarks you are overlooking.  It looks like it needs a good cleaning to run.

[Vrillon]

to me it looks like the insides was put into a new case at some point.

the movement seems awfully dirty but I aint sure why.

[KC]

Okay...this is a fun one!

Patente is the way patent is spelled in Spanish.

However, Gulle is used in Korea (headgear) or Germany (See for yourself - translate the page! Gülle – Wikipedia translates to http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%BClle  So------don't think it is that - at least hope not!

Now in Dutch this means "Generous Jeweled"!

[graderman]

I have set at this computer for 2 solid days researching watches. I haven't even seen a set of gears like the ones in this watch. The only reason i thought it to be a waltham is because some of them come close to matching the shield on the front of it& i found pics of waltham watches that had the same markings that are on the round piece attached to the chain beside the key. Any other suggestions?

[waywardangler]

The case may be from a totally different maker than the watch movement so going by the similarity of the design on a case and accompanying disc or fob will not identify the maker of your watch.  I would suggest you post your info and pics here...http://www.antique-pocket-watch.com/pocket-watch-photos.html  and see if any pocket watch collector can help you out.  Someone must know the maker or origin by looking at the movement.

[Vrillon]

alot of watches have that shield and design, my 1822 Silver watch has that exact design. Many watch makers or case makers tend to copy designs quite often.

[Vrillon]

I have set at this computer for 2 solid days researching watches. I haven't even seen a set of gears like the ones in this watch. The only reason i thought it to be a waltham is because some of them come close to matching the shield on the front of it& i found pics of waltham watches that had the same markings that are on the round piece attached to the chain beside the key. Any other suggestions?

Looks like English Movement from early to mid 19th century.

Which would remove the idea its a Waltham, it also uses a Key wind, which I believe went away later on in the 1800s.

I am thinking though this case is probably fairly new and was replaced at some point, this is why you cant identify it. Many pocket watches that old really had no identity to them.