Funny thing happened on the way to the Forum ... err ...I mean the dumpster

[fancypants]

I picked up this odd-ball the other day (yes , it's a dumpster-dive) .
Image measures 16" x 11 3/4" ; 'as found' & removed from frame .

Among the 'framing elements' was paper backing from various wards in "The North American , Philadelphia" (6 leaves , about 16 1/2" x 21") , sans any date .

The unusual thing about this one is the image of the Meta Sudans , which appears to be under some original excavation .
The Arch of Constantine is also not fully excavated .

I've searched fairly well & have only found images that seem to post-date (1890's - 1900's) this one .

The photograph is signed with 3(?) unknown initials , in the lower right , under main mat .
The cut mat is also gilded with gold-on-copper foil .

I know it's a fairly early photograph , but I'm just looking to date it .

Does anyone have the scoop on the 1800's excavations/restorations that happened there in Rome ?

Thanks in advance for any input !!

[waywardangler]

Zero Mostel? 

Fancypants, this is so way above my head that I do not even know what you are talking about, except for the dumpster diving part.

[fancypants]

The Meta Sudans was the fountain where gladiators would wash off the blood & gore from their 'encounters' in the adjacent Roman (the Colosseum) "super-dome' ... fans & admirers would 'interact' with the popular 'sports figures' of their day .
Benito Mussolini had it torn down , in order to make a road .

The Constantine Arch was built around 315 A.D.

Here's 2 other images from the site , circa 1890's & 1913 .

[waywardangler]

Fancypants, take a look at this page (#846 & #847 - numbered on far right) ...http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=306185&page=43

Your pic is on the right and pic from above site is on the left.  I have seen some with street lamps dated 1922 but this is earlier.  I would guess 1910 by the size of the trees compared to the 1922 pics.

So Mussolini got rid of the Meta so he could march his troops through the arch?  The website is full of historical photos and comments but they lose something in translation to English.

[sapphire]

fancy, don't know if this site and the Facebook link from same would be of any use. Can't read Italian and there are literally thousands of vintage photos   

Maybe post your photo with an enquiry and see if you get any response on the 'anno' and photographer ?   

http://heritage-key.com/blogs/bija-knowles/vanished-rome-turns-facebook

http://www.facebook.com/Roma.Sparita?v=app_10442206389

[fancypants]

Thanks , waywardangler & sapphire .

Still pokin' around on this one !

The dates on misc. pics , even from historical sites , have still got me guessin' (except from the 1913 & 1922 images) .

[fancypants]

A little update :

Some photo/history-buffs in Rome emailed me today with the joint opinion that the photo dates from 1865-1875 & is a 'previously unseen' image .
No info on the photographer so far .

I went through & disassembled the framing elements again today with a fine-tooth comb & found the date (on/in "The North American , Philadelphia" papers) April 27 , 1887 ; Office of the City Treasurer , Frank F. Bell .
Also a handwritten sig in pencil on the mat of "Lougshoth Sligo" .

[KC]

What dumpsters do you go through?  A museums?  Millionaires?  History Buffs? 

You lucky Dog!

[Oceans64]

Mr Bell sounded like he was very well respected...  You have probably seen but here is a nice write up on him:

http://books.google.com/books?id=-nEHRwRAwxAC&pg=PA265&lpg=PA265&dq=%22frank+f+Bell%22+treasurer+philadelphia&source=bl&ots=dYLVpFRdrg&sig=feXN6RJTc5ccM-AaqMc6Ziiumkw&hl=en&ei=hZLDTLD6CZC2sAO06O3MCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22frank%20f%20Bell%22%20treasurer%20philadelphia&f=false

Very cool find...

[fancypants]

One last bit ... I just had to put on my Mr. Science hat tonight & do a microscopic inspection of the photo .

It is an unburnished albumen process item , which puts its' actual date in true focus (from 1848 to 1875) .

I guess those folks in Rome were right on the money !

 

[talesofthesevenseas]

That is VERY cool Fancypants!! Congrats on a great find!!!

[fancypants]

It is very funny to me .

I just couldn't let an old frame (worth more than the photo) & photo wind up in the landfill .

This one would be a good one to lay on ironlord1963 , with all of his photo experience .

[ironlord1963]

    Yea sure wish I would find something as grand as this.  Guess I'm going to have to go through more dumbsters 

[fancypants]

Hey , ironlord , if you want it , it's yours !