Author Topic: Dresden Lady  (Read 3346 times)

cjhodgson66

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Dresden Lady
« on: January 02, 2012, 09:20:16 pm »
I am trying to find out more about my Dresden Lady.  I have searched all over the internet and have not been able to find the symbol on her. On the bottom are the markings "Dresden" and a crossed axe with an upside down w through the top and an o on the bottom. The markings are in red, but all my searches on Dresden are in blue.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2012, 08:31:07 am by cjhodgson66 »

Chris_Marshall

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Re: Dresden Lady
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2012, 03:00:14 am »
Could you post a picture of the mark, please?

cjhodgson66

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Re: Dresden Lady
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2012, 08:33:27 am »
Here is the photo of the mark.  It also reads Germany below Dresden,but it is very blurry. Thanks.

Chris_Marshall

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Re: Dresden Lady
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2012, 03:12:52 pm »
I am a bit torn on how to answer, especially as my way of looking at an item and thinking during that process is a bit peculiar. So bear with me :)

Looking at the figure itself I instantly thought "Japanese import" as the unnatural seating position (a body not really matching the seat) is often (but not only) found on older Japanese and newer Chinese imports. Second thought: cheap German manufacture possible, e.g. Royal Porzellan Kutik, Höffner Sandizell, or Klette (Küps) ...

Then I read your comment on the mark and froze, because your description struck a bell. Problem was that the description sounded 'incomplete' but still brought up an image of a certain manufacturer mark - however that in turn did not really match the first impression of the figure.

After seeing the mark I knew there was something wrong. I just checked again, and the shown mark does not match any of marks used by the only manufacturer in Germany which used a similar mark. The manufacturer in question always (when using marks without hammers) used an 'M' superposed on an 'O', while the class of his hammer marks always has the 'M' and 'O' *flanking* the hammers - your mark is a mix of both versions, and that simply does not fit.

The company I am talking about is pretty well documented, so there is barely room for doubt - your item is not a documented mark of Metzler & Ortloff from Ilmenau in Thuringia. Which means that it may (with a *very* slim chance) be an original that has simply slipped documentation -or- it's a look-alike of dubious origin. When looking at other M&O figures, there's a wide array of styles and qualities - some are far better made than yours, some are worse (especially from the era in which the factory was nationalized).

At least I can say that it is not a "hidden treasure" or extremely valuable as such items can be found in large numbers.



frogpatch

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Re: Dresden Lady
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2012, 03:35:41 pm »
The mark would indicate that it was made between the two World Wars for the tourist or import trade. After WWII it would say Western Germany and earlier pieces were marked with crossed swords or a blue crown with makers monogram. There are others but those are the well known ones and also highly sought after.

Chris_Marshall

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Re: Dresden Lady
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2012, 05:42:50 pm »
frogpatch,

sorry, but there's a few things in your post I must disagree upon.

"... The mark would indicate that it was made between the two World Wars for the tourist or import trade. After WWII it would say Western Germany ..."

Even after 1949 (the founding year of both states which became known as West and East Germany), many manufacturers (in both new states) continued to use a simple 'Germany' ... that is plain fact. One should hold in mind that if East / West designations are present, they *generally* allow dating an item roughly between 1949 and 1989, an absence of those designations however says NOTHING. A more in-depth description of marking procedures in this context can be found on my site in the 'MADE IN WEST GERMANY' or 'MADE IN G.D.R.' section here:

http://www.porcelainmarksandmore.com/resources/historical.php

Also, the specific manufacturer I was talking about was located in EAST Germany ... so your comment on western germany could confuse the original poster, just like your mentioning of 'crossed swords'. What have they got to do with this thread ?


mart

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Re: Dresden Lady
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2012, 05:57:25 pm »
Your lady is very oddly positioned and what is with those hands !!  I don`t think women of that time ever sat like that !!  Makes me think that something is missing from it !!  Any ideas Chris ??

Chris_Marshall

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Re: Dresden Lady
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2012, 08:30:27 pm »
mart,

if you have a chance (and I know it's hard nowadays), try to take a trip into a porcelain factory or pottery and have a look at the methods of assembling figures ... highly interesting stuff. The different methods (casting or one-piece-modelling by hand) all have their specific problems, but one of the funniest ones is "zombie movement" - a change of positioning caused by (uneven) shrinkage and the resulting warping of singular-pieced items, sign of cheap production methods.

Companies can battle this effectively by assembling figures in multiple steps: they fire single elements before sticking them together with slicker (which is a real challenge when arranging sets of people); a second firing then results in a complete figure. In case of lace figures, a third firing is needed after correctly placing the lace. Such methods are of course time- and energy-consuming, hence the products are more expensive.

If you take another look at the picture, ignore her weird leg positioning and imagine her upper body sitting upright ... her arms/hands would be correctly laying on top of her dress. Her weird position is the result of bad assembly, hence my first thought in the direction of Asian origin followed by cheap German manufacture.

cjhodgson66

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Re: Dresden Lady
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2012, 08:57:55 pm »
Thank you all for your input. I have searched a few times about Dresden and was never successful. My family immigrated from Germany and I believe the figure was bought there. It once belonged to my great grandmother.  It is in mint condition and does not have any chips. I was just curious to know more about her. Again, thanks to everyone who gave input and researched my question at hand. 

mart

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Re: Dresden Lady
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2012, 09:50:41 am »
Thanks for the answer Chris !!  But here in NE Texas,,I would be hard pressed to find a porcelain factory anywhere !!  At least to my knowledge there isn`t one !!  I take your word that is correct as you are the expert here !! I always learn from you and all the members here !!

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: Dresden Lady
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2012, 01:45:18 pm »
Chris! It is good to see you back on the forum again!

For those of you who haven't met Chris Marshall prior to this, he is the founder of http://www.porcelainmarksandmore.com and has contributed tons of info to the forum. He has a great deal of expertise when it comes to porcelain items.
Antiqueaholic in recovery

mart

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Re: Dresden Lady
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2012, 02:14:22 pm »
I have it on my desktop for quick reference !!  Great site if I ever learn to navigate it !!