Author Topic: Doors age?  (Read 5967 times)

hosman321

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Doors age?
« on: February 03, 2012, 05:11:05 am »
Hi everyone. :)
I am thinking about purchasing these doors. Not absolutely positive yet because they are expensive and I don't know how to tell how old they are. Something doesn't seem right about them to me and I can't pinpoint it. They don't have the usual rosehead nails and I don't really recognize the style of hardware as being American. Could they maybe be French or English? Does anyone think they are really circa 1750? Thanks for any advice!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/160642054405?_trksid=p5197.c0.m619#ht_500wt_1180

mart

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2012, 06:31:11 am »
Mmmm,,,not sure about it !!  When were those round head screws put in  ??  Look more English to me !!  I take it that they were just told where they came from when they purchased them ??  I would question a bit more before buying !!

hosman321

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2012, 06:42:09 am »
They seem French or English the more I look at them. But I don't know enough to know any better. I wouldn't mind if they were French or English as long as they were from the 18th century. Thanks for the reply, mart!

mart

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2012, 07:02:22 am »
It would not be unusual for English items to be sold as American !!  Thats what happened when all the imports were shipped here !! And there were lots of doors too,, it wasn`t just furniture !!  Many dealers sold them as American to people that didn`t know better !! Or they said " I think its from" Or "could be from" to avoid returns and angry buyers !!  Like going to a flea market today and seeing something you know was made 1930`s but seller`s great great great great grandmother brought it when crossing America in a covered wagon !!  Not to dash your hopes but I would just question and research a bit before you believe the seller !!

hosman321

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2012, 07:06:59 am »
Great advice mart! That's why I come to all of you fine folks, I have a feeling the seller doesn't really know much. I think I will write jacon and ask him about the hardware, he knows so much more about that period than me. Thanks again.

jacon4

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2012, 08:32:26 am »
Hmmmmm, well, they could very well be American however, its hard to tell from pic's with all that paint if the hardware is actually 18th century. The door hinges appear to be 18th century "tulip" hinges, popular among PA german settlers. The question is though, are they hand wrought iron, impossible to tell from pics. The door knob/handle appears to be of a much later date.

A couple things to keep in mind about 18th century american hardware. First off, we were english citizens and two, colonists were PROHIBITED from setting up foundrys to cast brass, why? Economic was one reason, the brits wanted to sell finished brass goods to their colonies and then there were political reasons. Cannons are cast from brass & theres no telling where that could lead!

What all this means is, blacksmiths made everything from nails to hinges to anything that the local smith could produce with a forge and hammer. Almost ALL brass brass hardware was imported, mostly from england. Still, to most collectors original hardware is still a BIG DEAL whether imported or not. So, what we see today on pieces that have original hardware is, if its brass, its most likely imported, if it's wrought iron, its most likely made locally.

Oceans64

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2012, 09:13:29 am »
Brass doesn't rust and I see some rust towards the bottoms. Could be from the screws I guess? 

VERY nice looking doors!!  The hardware is fab!
"In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these." — Paul Harvey

jacon4

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2012, 09:33:05 am »
Does anyone think they are really circa 1750?

They could be, they might not be, you really cant tell from these pics.

hosman321

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2012, 09:46:21 am »
It makes me a bit nervous that all the screws (the brass ones and the dome shaped ones) have the line directly in the middle of the screw. They aren't off-center at all. Does that make any difference? But in the 3rd to last picture, it does look like some sort of rose-head nail. I would be ok if they were made up to 1800. But I don't want them if they are some late Victorian repros or something.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 09:48:03 am by hosman321 »

mart

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2012, 10:45:42 am »
From what I see I don`t think they are repro`s but my opinion is that they are likely 1800`s doors rather than 1700`s !!  But Jacon4 is a much better judge than I am !!

Oceans64

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2012, 02:39:00 pm »
As you know, I am no expert but....  If 18th century is important to you (and I know it is) then for that $$ I would want a good explanation as to how/why they came to that conclusion. Were they part of a remodel? are they mistaking 18th century for the 1800's? etc....

I'm with the others in thinking that they are likely later - primarily because there are very few 18th century buildings that remain in tact, never mind mid-18th C (no evidence just a general observation).  
"In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these." — Paul Harvey

mart

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2012, 02:59:01 pm »
I agree Oceans and the few that are intact would not likely have the doors replaced !!  That would blow the reputation of any historical society !! I still think English 1800`s !!

jacon4

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2012, 03:17:33 pm »
Yeah, I think Oceans right, very few 18th century buildings are still around. They are most likely going with 18th century because of those Tulip hinges. I'd say the tulip hinges are american.

http://www.janekatchercollection.com/html/chesthinges.html
http://www.maineantiquedigest.com/articles_archive/articles/aug05/sorber0805.htm

As you can see, the tulip hinges alone, if they are 18th century could be worth what they are asking for the entire door. Naturally thats a big IF there. One would have to examine the doors in person to know for sure.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2012, 04:55:36 pm by jacon4 »

Rauville

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2012, 05:52:00 pm »
I would ask the seller as to how they arrived at that date. Looking at their other items, I see they somewhat specialize in vintage hardware.

jacon4

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Re: Doors age?
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2012, 04:53:23 am »
Yeah, i noticed that too, seller has alot of old hardware plus they are located in PA, a good sign. I would note that those tulip hinges remained popular all during the 18th century and are pretty rare, you find them mostly on PA. dower & blanket chests from that period.