How Old is my Sofa?

[talesofthesevenseas]

Here are the detail pics of my sofa (same one that is in the project topic, about to be reupholstered). I would like to try to get an idea of how old it is. It is 88" in over-all length, the seat is narrow, only 20" in depth. It's very bench-like, designed for formal sitting, not lounging like a modern couch. I love it, I found it on Craigslist and paid $160 for it.

Here's the couch:



Detail on the back, it appears that I may be missing some of the center flower. If so, it is hard to tell. There's no sign of a breach and it's got as much patina as the rest, there are no rough edges and no sign of a break or refinishing. It looks almost like it is supposed to look like this. If it broke, it was a very long time ago. These back pieces appear hand carved:







Scroll arm front pieces, the casters are a later addition. The front ones come out, but the rear ones I cannot get off yet:



Veneers and more carvings on the lower front:



Old iron straps holding the underside of the couch. A magnet sticks to them. They have modern screws from the 1975 reupholstering of the couch



1975 reupholstering tag



Old screws with individually cut slots in the heads, slightly off-center



Old construction, no signs of any circular saw marks, only straight saw marks (upper right) old glue, nice rough boards underneath.



Rear legs as seen from the inside. These are plain and slightly irregular.

[cogar]

I agree, it looks like a piece of the carving came un-glued and got lost in "the shuffle".

Old cabinetmakers really didn't like to use wide boards because of the internal stresses in the board which oftentimes would cause them to eventually twist or warp unless they were firmly attached or joined to another piece of wood.

Thus, they might take a 12" board, saw it length wise in half and then glue it back together. More often than not, they would have to run those "cut" edges across the jointer to "true" them up before re-gluing.

ps: many times when "ripping" a board said stresses would clamp the "saw cut" so tight it would "freeze" the blade right in the "cut". Or, one side of the cut would twist out so far that it could be used for a "rocker" on a rocking chair.

[ghopper1924]

I'll stick with my date of ca. 1850-1855. It looks as if the sofa is veneered in flame mahogany with walnut on the crest and pine used in the frame. The lower body looks empire, while the cresting is rococo revival. There are c-scrolls in the ornamentation. I agree that the crowning rosette was cut in half and refinished, probably some time ago.

My guess would be that it was made in the northestern U.S. Congratulations on your purchase, which was a bargain, by the way. It's hard to give it a dollar value, since sofas and chairs tend to be worth less than their owners think they are. Still, with nice upholstry (burgundy damask?), it should be worth upwards of $1K. Keep in mind that the back should probably be tufted if you want to get closer to that "period" look.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Wow! I am thrilled! Thanks very much. Furniture has never been my forte and I was just hoping that I knew enough to make a decent purchase. I am really pleased thanks gang!

[mart]

A blending of styles was common back then !! Crest is hand carved !! Can see the marks clearly !! I agree with Ghopper on this sofa !!  Great find and excellent price !!

[talesofthesevenseas]

I see the marks you are talking about on the crest, those flat spots are chisel marks! Awesome!  The camera flash helps make them visible. I'll take some more photos of the crest with that in mind and put them up in the special thread section. It would be good to collect examples of hand carving where you can see it like this.

I doubt I will go with burgundy damask, since I have to come up with something that will match the rest of the living room. I either have to pick a neutral color and use the throw pillows to make it match the Eastlake rocker, because the fabric I used on the rocker is no longer available. If I go with a completely new color, I have to do both the sofa and the rocker again. I have to remove the fabric on the back to figure out how the upholstery was done. There is no gimp (trim) on the edge and it is really on tight and hard, not soft and fluffy. I've never done tufting, but the stuffing in the back is already formed this way, so I plan to go with that. It's gonna be a bear by the  looks of it, there are four rows of buttons. But I think I can follow the existing stuffing and just replace the fabric and set the buttons into the obvious places using the 1975 fabric as a template. I also need to locate cotton to pad the seat, since I do not want to use foam. It has cotton now, but could use some additional padding.

Would the original buttons in the back have been covered with cloth? That is what is on there now.

[mart]

Yes the buttons would have been covered !!  Can`t remember what color you did the Eastlake in !!  I will say,, I do not envy you doing this yourself !!  I would not tackle it !!

[talesofthesevenseas]

See the burgundy throw pillows with the gold floral pattern? That is what the Eastlake rocker is upholstered in and I love it. I really don't want to undo that, I'm very pleased with how the 'Eastie' came out, so I'm leaning towards a solid, neutral color for the sofa. This sofa needs throw pillows anyway so that I can lounge like a modern-day person!

[mart]

With so much pattern on the Eastlake I would stay away from a damask !!  Think about a deep beige,,almost sand color, textured fabric,, no pattern !!  Hard to imagine without knowing whats going on in the rest of the room !!

[ghopper1924]

I took a tour of the Campbell House in St. Louis a year or so ago. It's an amazing place full of high end rococo revival furniture. According to the director of the house, research is revealing that parlor sets and matching sets with multiple chairs in general were not necessarily upholstered in the same fabric, even in the same room.

Many of their chairs have the stereotypical burgundy fabric. He said that when the pieces go out for upholstering next time that they most likely will not match in the future.

All this is by way of saying: Do whatever you want, without worrying overmuch about the rocker.

And yes, the buttons on you sofa werer originally covered in fabric.

[talesofthesevenseas]

It really bugs me when furniture doesn't match. My husband, ya gotta love him, insists he has to have the largest size of La-Z-Boy recliner made *sigh!* I hate recliners with a passion. The say 'beer in one hand, remote in the other, bag of Fritos on the lap'. But I finally gave in and told him if he gets his recliner, then I get to pick an antique couch. So I think it will be a neutral sand color so that I can at least get the colors in sync. I think if a recliner type of guy and a Rocco gal can have a good marriage, I have to at least try it with the living room!

[mart]

If you shop the bargain bin at the fabric store you might find a couple of colors in a cheap fabric you can throw over the back and look at a while !!  This would give you an idea if the color is something you can live with !!  Cheaper to do that than to have the sofa done and not be happy with it !!  There appears to be a piece of trim missing off one of the squares on the bottom !!  You can buy that rope type trim from restoration websites !!  Might even find it on ebay !!

[talesofthesevenseas]

Thanks for the tip on the trim, i will keep an eye out for some!

[ghopper1924]

Good catch on that trim piece, Mart.

Rococo sofas vs. lazy boys? Yeah.....I don't get it. When it comes to quality of materials and construction, I'll take 2 rococo sofas and no lazy boys. I'd watch T.V. on the floor before I'd get a recliner. 

Just sayin'.

[talesofthesevenseas]

I couldn't agree with you more. I have fought this battle for 13 years with him, but he reeeeeeeeally wanted one and when he started having foot trouble I finally gave in.

I would much rather be this:



than this:



and these days, they start 'em off reclining so young...