Japanese Imari plates

[kidden6968]

Hello everyone,

So last week when I was doing a flea market, a vendor nearby had been speaking to my husband on and off all day and at the end of the day, she called him over.  She explained that her family was moving to South Carolina and did not want to take anything back with them.  They told us to take what we wanted.  We really were given some nice things. 

Among them were 4 plates that she had tagged 10 1/3" Imari hand painted.  3 of the plates have no mark on them but I was sure that when I looked at them before there was one that had a paper or foil label that said Imari ware.  Well that is no where to be found again but when I tried to find information, I believe these are vintage - maybe mid-century.

One plate however looks slightly older and does have a mark that I can't seem to find either.  Can anyone help with the mark and dating?  The foot of the plate looks older and this one has a red ring painted around the foot as well.  Seems a little fancier.

I am going to attach copies of all 4 plates just for show.

[kidden6968]

These are the other 3

[kidden6968]

oops 10 1/2"

[greenacres]

These can be really valuable if they are not repros. I have antique book with recent sales. I'll check.

[kidden6968]

Thanks greenacres.  Somehow I don't think the 3 unmarked are very old.  Each was tagged $50 and then marked down to $10.

But the first one I posted with the mark seems older.  They are all pretty detailed but the marked one has a scalloped (?) edge and the outer rim of the plate is textured.  It has the mark and the handpainted red border around the foot of the plate.

I have seen a number of these on Ebay for $5 - $10 but something just strikes me different about the marked one.

[greenacres]

I was just doing some reading. Its says all chinese art and design, the meaning of a particular symbol is important in both cultural and religous terms. Many of the symbols have been used since prehistoric times. Some symbols have the same meaning deer, crane represent immortality. Types of flowers would represent wealth.They also used dragons, fish. What I'm saying is that top piece is quite unusual for being chinese ceramics. It's painted to look similar to Imari, but there are no similar patterns here. The colors are not right either. I'm sorry I can't help you more than that. I'm not sure what it is.

[kidden6968]

Well I did determine that the design on the marked plate is that of the Black Ship and Dutchmen which was a popular Imari design and actually worth quite a bit.  However, each of the designs are a bit different and do not look exactly the same.  This is probably a repro but I am not sure I can determine that unless I can find this mark.  Hmmmmmm  For example:

http://www.trocadero.com/squireantiques/items/1149427/item1149427.html

http://www.christies.com/lotFinder/lot_details.aspx?intObjectID=4003154

[greenacres]

They are beautiful. The colors on yours are what really throw me. The combination of the bright colors. I learned something about the ships. They should add that to "Millers" to show more examples also in their full discriptions. It makes their books inaccurate.

[kidden6968]

It could actually be my lighting too and the fact that I try to enhance the colors.  The ones I posted here look more orange than they actually are.  I will try again tomorrow in natural light instead of my inadequate lighting here.

What stumps me too is that I clicked on a number of images for black ship and dutchmen and they are all different so it is going to be even harder to tell.  I also just joined a forum for translation of the characters.  We'll see.

I also don't know how to tell if it is a repro as what I have read said that imari was not marked unless it was made for a special occasion.

The things we learn  LOL

Thanks greenacres   

[greenacres]

I tried., lol Maybe someone will have some better imput.

[kidden6968]

Greenacres, you are right - colors are off.  When I got this out in sunlight today it is more orange an the ship is not black but blue.  Oh well - thought I had a good one.  On the other hand, all of these items were just handed to me free of charge so if I made $20 bucks - still a profit.   

[greenacres]

So, right!