Antique Map of Ireland

[benno699]

Hi all I recently had an Antique Map (~280 years old) framed only to have it suffer water damage from the shower upstairs leaking down through the roof into the frame...

This has however perhaps turned out to be a blessing in disguise since it turns out the framer used PVA glue and glued the map to a piece of MDF...

He insists the map will be fine and its a matter of "Opinion" on weather or not PVA glue and MDF is damaging to the map.
 I was hoping for some expert advice on the area.

Regards

David Bennett
(Australia)

[cogar]

If the map suffered H2O damage ........ then how can it be "just fine".

Sounded like the framer was telling you to ....... "just give it an aspirin".

[mart]

Take it to a different framer PDQ !!

[bigwull]

If your map stuck to the MDF, I would be more concerned about a possible health issue..rather than your map...MDF...contain s Formaldehyde,and it is one of the most toxic chemicals that can invade the human body. It is a known carcinogen and tissue irritant...Whilst most of the health issues associated with MDF..are with the dust that is emitted when it is cut...there is a  concern when it is wet...as MDF is very absorbent...there is a  chance that formaldehyde..can be transferred...and absorbed through the skin....so my advice is ..as a precaution when handling this map and board..wear a mask and latex gloves....

[mart]

Only place that uses formaldehyde anymore is China !!  But can`t figure out why a framer that should know better would do such rather than use a cheap acid free backer board made for paper items !!  I have had a few things museum framed and acid free and that is the standard  for most frame shops !!   I am wondering if what they are calling MDF is masonite ??  No reason to glue the map but its a pretty safe base if so !!

[bigwull]

You may think that Formaldehyde is only used in China Mart...but i can assure you its not...see link...and this is only one company....

http://www.kronospan-worldwide.com/products/medium-density-fibreboard-high-density-fibreboard/

[mart]

http://www.kronospan-worldwide.com/environment/our-journey-to-low-emission-products/
Did you read this page of it ?? Sounds pretty good to me since California has the most stringent regulations of almost all the states and they meet or exceed them with an E-0 or E-1 !!  About the same as natural wood !! 

[bigwull]

Not every country...has such stringent..laws when it comes to the use of MDF...there,s a lot of high formaldehyde content MDF...around on the planet...and while i,m on the subject of Formaldehyde...you,d be surprised at how many other products contain it...take for instance....Red Bull...energy drink....it does,nt say it on the tin..but after it gets into your system...formaldehy de...soon becomes apparent.....the sales slogan for Red Bull...is "it gives you wings"....maybe sooner than you think....

[mart]

Never touch that stuff !@!

[KC]

Mart you and Wullie just crack me up.  I sit and try to imagine what your voices sound like spouting off verbally what you have typed!  I definitely get a good chuckle!!!

Okay, back to the thread....If your item was framed I am concerned why it was glued to MDF in the first place.  I would recommend that you take it to a reputable map worker/framer and see what you are looking at.  Not saying that the original fella didn't do the best he could and it was a standard in your area.....but water exposure is water exposure....which is a "threat" to the integrity of the piece.  So, sleep better and get it checked out.

[benno699]

Thanks all, it seems the guy is dodgy and so now the map could be lost since the original cost was around ~$450 AUD and repairs have been quoted as between $700-1500. I'm seeing a guy next week about who will give me another quote.

I feel fairly upset about this since I purchased the map as a reminder of my time in Ireland and the UK and looked at it as an investment as well that I had earned. Now it could all go to shit thanks to one negligent  framing store. Seems he might have outsourced the work and they just did a cheap arse glue job to a piece of MDF.

Important lesson learnt for me.. I'll be chasing up reimbursement of the framer so wish me luck.

[cogar]

I'm beginning to think some of you guys n' gals are trying to "brainwash" me into being a neurotic treehugging greenie that's afeared of living anda scared of dying which will make me so nervous and cited I'll be smoking 3 packs of cigarettes per day instead of my normal 1 3/4 packs/day anda I can't give up the cigarette smoke because it dilutes all that deadly dangerous CO2 gas that's pollutin da air that's gonna kill me justa soon as those global temps getsa hot my house catches on fire before all the ice melts and the rising sea water drowns me fore I getta chance to bury all my antiques and collectibles to prevent another unsuspecting sole gettin hold of those deadly dangerous items and suffering the same fate as me.

So, ...... here's hoping that the EPA and FEMA will save my arse before those end-times come, ..... that is iffen the Mayan Doomsday don't get me on 12-21-12.

Meanwhile, some lifesaving advice from ...... Home Depot, .....
 

Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF)

MDF is made by breaking softwoods down into individual fibers, which are then glued and pressed together. MDF is denser than particle board and has a smooth finish that takes paint very well, making it a great choice for interior projects. MDF can also be used for built-ins, cabinets, raised panels, or simple furniture.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/ContentView?pn=Plywood&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053

[bigwull]

I'm beginning to think some of you guys n' gals are trying to "brainwash" me into being a neurotic treehugging greenie that's afeared of living anda scared of dying which will make me so nervous and cited I'll be smoking 3 packs of cigarettes per day instead of my normal 1 3/4 packs/day anda I can't give up the cigarette smoke because it dilutes all that deadly dangerous CO2 gas that's pollutin da air that's gonna kill me justa soon as those global temps getsa hot my house catches on fire before all the ice melts and the rising sea water drowns me fore I getta chance to bury all my antiques and collectibles to prevent another unsuspecting sole gettin hold of those deadly dangerous items and suffering the same fate as me.

So, ...... here's hoping that the EPA and FEMA will save my arse before those end-times come, ..... that is iffen the Mayan Doomsday don't get me on 12-21-12.

Meanwhile, some lifesaving advice from ...... Home Depot, .....
 

Medium Density Fiberboard (MDF)

MDF is made by breaking softwoods down into individual fibers, which are then glued and pressed together. MDF is denser than particle board and has a smooth finish that takes paint very well, making it a great choice for interior projects. MDF can also be used for built-ins, cabinets, raised panels, or simple furniture.

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/catalog/servlet/ContentView?pn=Plywood&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053

you,ve just made my day cogar... .i,had a few drams too many last night...and woke up about 10 mins ago feeling like a bull wi a sare heid...and ma mooth wiz like the bottom o. a parrots cage....but on reading whats ailing you...has made me feel a helluva lot better....coupled with the fact that i,m only on 5 hand rolls a day......but having said that....you know the old saying cogar.....you die if you worry...you die if you don,t....so why worry....

[mart]

LOL  KC, Thats part of the fun around here !!
 My entire family was in the construction business while I was growing up and I have been around all that stuff that people are having fits over today !!  Asbestos insulation, Johns Manville siding, All types of fiber board over the years,, we have burnt it, ripped it off and out of houses, and squeezed water out of it when wet !!  Seems the paranoia occurs just before a newer product is released by a competitor !!  Only thing I am fearful of is the new low wattage light bulbs !!  I won`t use them !!  Screwed one in and smoke came out of the bulb !!  I thought ,, this can not be good so I stay with the old style !!

[KC]

Yepper Mart...we were raised with all of that stuff that they have now said is deadly! (asbestos insulation, lead glassware, pesticides, etc)

The current day MDF (aka Medium Density Fiber) is safe and used ALL THE TIME inside!  It is lighter than some woods and resistent to warping when exposed to moisture so it has always been a choice for furniture in the modern days.

My concern is that they didn't "dry fit" the map with the MDF.  If it is framed, then the MDF/Frame pressure would hold it in place and no glue would be necessary.  If it is frame less...only on MDF... then the gluing to it would make more sense!  But I believe benno699 stated it was "framed".  (The gluing to the board would be more economical but wouldn't insure the value of the map.)