Author Topic: Meet "Rebecca"  (Read 6992 times)

talesofthesevenseas

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Meet "Rebecca"
« on: December 21, 2012, 01:15:45 am »
Once again I have stumbled upon an antique doll that has captured my heart. Meet "Rebecca". According to the seller, this is an Acadian rag doll doll found with a woman in her nineties in rural Louisiana. Pinned to her dress is as note that says Grandma "Rebecca". I don't have her in hand yet, but the only condition issues noted are some age staining. She is made from flour sacks. it looks like the time period during which it was popular to make flour sack dolls was around the 1920s to 1930s, although rag dolls have been found even in ancient Rome. The body and dress are machine stitched, (lock stitch not chain stitch) so the technology would date her to post-1850s more likely 1880's and later.

Does 1920 seem like a likely date? The clothing style may be earlier. I am not sure if Rebecca is a baby in a christening gown or a lady in a bonnet!

How does a person value this kind of doll? Looking at other examples on Ebay and other sites it seems to have more to do with opinion  and the cute factor than artistry or age. Values are all over the place.

Any thoughts? I will post more photos once "Rebecca" is in hand. These photos are from the seller. I paid $38.00












« Last Edit: December 26, 2012, 12:17:56 pm by talesofthesevenseas »
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bigwull

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Re: Meet "Rebecca"
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 01:22:50 am »
Whilst I can,t profess to be an expert on sack cloth dolls...i, think you are a bit out..with dating this doll at around 1920....i would have thought around ..."18-oatcake"..."Scottish saying"...when exact date is unknown.... :D
I make no excuses,and no apologies....but i like a good Malt,

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: Meet "Rebecca"
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 01:26:24 am »
It does look potentially older to me too. I was playing it safe with 1920. I am hoping I will have a better sense of the age when I have the doll in hand.
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ghopper1924

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Re: Meet "Rebecca"
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2012, 06:24:49 am »
I know nothing about dolls whatsoever, but the overall look + lace looks more like 1890 - 1910.
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frogpatch

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Re: Meet "Rebecca"
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2012, 06:49:38 am »
Awesome! Who cares when it was made. It is how it was made by whom and where. I think it is a great example of Americana.

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: Meet "Rebbecca"
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2012, 12:23:11 pm »
Thanks, I loved the homespun look of this doll right away and the X's on the eyes! I think seeing the details in person will help. The little rose should be a good indicator of age, if it was homemade from ribbon, or store bought. The seller says that the body is stuffed with cloth, possibly handkerchiefs or more flour sacks. Whatever the age, there is no question it was pieced together from this and that, which is really cool. My thought is to collect a couple of flour sack dolls to go in a basket on the floor of my kitchen.
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bigwull

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Re: Meet "Rebbecca"
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 12:51:44 pm »
Thanks, I loved the homespun look of this doll right away and the X's on the eyes! I think seeing the details in person will help. The little rose should be a good indicator of age, if it was homemade from ribbon, or store bought. The seller says that the body is stuffed with cloth, possibly handkerchiefs or more flour sacks. Whatever the age, there is no question it was pieced together from this and that, which is really cool. My thought is to collect a couple of flour sack dolls to go in a basket on the floor of my kitchen.
Oh..a widnae pit the on the flair...yon wee moosies micht get a hud o them...they jist luv flour sacks.... ;D
I make no excuses,and no apologies....but i like a good Malt,

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: Meet "Rebbecca"
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 01:19:14 pm »
My kitchen is a moosie-free zone  ;D
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rockandrollrods

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Re: Meet "Rebbecca"
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 11:48:08 pm »
Looks like a christening gown to me, but that is primarily an Eastern orthodox and Catholic tradition...which would be strange because of the age. There were not large communities of Catholics in the country until more recently.
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bigwull

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Re: Meet "Rebbecca"
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2012, 12:30:07 am »
My kitchen is a moosie-free zone  ;D
Ours as well,..thanks to Poppy and Flossie...our two cats... ;D
I make no excuses,and no apologies....but i like a good Malt,

bigwull

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Re: Meet "Rebbecca"
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2012, 10:05:24 pm »
My kitchen is a moosie-free zone  ;D
Are you aware Tales...that although ...you may not have the luxury of hearing the patter of tiny feet scampering across your kitchen floor...there is every possibility..that within 3 ft of you...is a set of slightly larger..feet scampering about....for!...statistics show...that for every person in the civilised world..there is a Rattus Rattus within 3 ft of them....comforting thought is,nt it... ;D
I make no excuses,and no apologies....but i like a good Malt,

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: Meet "Rebbecca"
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2012, 12:13:10 am »
I live in the middle of a redwood forest, so this can be a problem here. However I found a solution. We feed a small herd of feral cats, who now live outside and underneath the house. Semi-feral is a better way to describe them. They were all born wild, but they have been with us so long that they all let us pet them and one or two can be picked up and held. The few meeces that are foolish enough to dare to venture into the yard, are taken out in short order.
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bigwull

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Re: Meet "Rebbecca"
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2012, 12:35:40 pm »
There the best kind of cats to have...one ours was a feral...she adopted us...and she is a prolific hunter.she keeps the field mice at bay...during harvest...and is capable taking down a rabbit..which to Avrils annoyance..is frequent...Avril sees them as bunnies...Avril ..also does,nt eat venison...because she thinks Bambi...
I make no excuses,and no apologies....but i like a good Malt,

talesofthesevenseas

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Re: Meet "Rebecca"
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2012, 01:28:25 pm »
"Rebecca" arrived this morning and she is absoutely spectacular. I will post some detail pics later. I don't see anything modern here. Here are some things I've noted:

**The body is stuffed with printed fabric that looks like flour sack cloth. You can see brightly colored floral fabric through the body fabric.

**There is a lot of staining, so much that it almost looks faked, but it is consistant with protected areas of the dress, like inside pleats and folds are light colored, exposed outer areas are age stained. Looks like she was put carefully away for a very long time and not moved much, not laundered and not ironed, but packed away.

**Everything is very stable, no loose seams and no holes.

**All the machine stitching is straight stitch, like what I do on my treadle machine. No zig-zag stitching anywhere and not perfectly done. No doubt this is homemade.

**The rose on the waistband is definitely handmade and not secured with plastic like the modern ones, it is hard, and coiled and formed ribbon, hardened with some type of starch to hold its shape.

**I'm discovering that machine made lace can be very old, it was available in the early 19th century, so that does not help to pinpoint a date. The lace is clearly not modern and definitely antique, especially the brown lace hanging from the bow which is quite soft and fragile. Here's a great article on identifying handmade and machine made lace: http://www.dressandtextilespecialists.org.uk/Lace%20Booklet.pdf

**All of the fibers are cotton, I pulled apart a thread that was loose and unattached, it was definitely 100% cotton, no polyester core.

**The note is not paperbag. The paper has a soft feel to it like it may even contain some kind of fiber. It looks like it was originally in the shape of a heart, and the point is gone. There was more, I can see two loops of the next line of text, but it's gone. and 
Grandma's "Rebecca" is what is left. To my surprise, the note does not appear to have stained the dress like you would expect from acidic paper.

**The safety pin holding the note was brass, on the underside of the dress you can see the color, on the exposed part it has tarnished. Looks like it has been there a long time.

**The writing on the note is definitely fountain pen ink and not ball point. I know we learned to write with them in the 1960's in grade school, but it was an outdated technology at that point and not commonly used.I think the note could be dated to 1940-ish at the latest because of that?

So if we are talking about a person who was a grandma in the 1940s I think Rebecca must be turn of the century or earlier, does that seem right?
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bigwull

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Re: Meet "Rebecca"
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2012, 01:42:48 pm »
As you have the hands on..and your technical knowledge..of stitching..and fabrics..far outweigh what many of us know...I will nod my head in full agreement...with all what you have said...
I make no excuses,and no apologies....but i like a good Malt,