Need help datin g a chest of drawers.

[robgil]

My thoughts exactly Bigwull, I'm glad you said people slept in these, after all the noise I have made tonight I reckon I'll be sleeping in it, Lucky I'm not eating it, she said.

[bigwull]

My thoughts exactly Bigwull, I'm glad you said people slept in these, after all the noise I have made tonight I reckon I'll be sleeping in it, Lucky I'm not eating it, she said.

I see you are the same as  me....when the boss is,nt in, you,ll be the Boss...but when she,is in you,ll do as your told...i,ve got one just like her,sitting opposite as i type....now i,m off to bed .. ....

[mart]

All I would do is have the top repaired so it doesn`t split farther !!  All you need is at least three pipe clamps, good quality wood glue and patience !! I would not touch the finish !!  Don`t think its turned brown but may have been refinished at some time in the past !! I thought it looked like it may have been !!  Saw some gunk that should not have been there !!

Thought you would have a grin at that "ornery Scotsman" remark !! 

[bigwull]

I think its done all the splitting its going to do...I don,t see it getting any bigger...

[cogar]

All I would do is have the top repaired so it doesn`t split farther !!  All you need is at least three pipe clamps, good quality wood glue and patience !! 

Mart, I don't think the top will split any further.

And I wouldn't even think about gluing and clamping that top board back together because things are going to start .... poppin, snappin and crackin .... the minute you start tightening up on those pipe-clamps.

Look at the picture titled “Inside Top Drawer Hole” and the bottom of the picture titled “Top”  and you will see what I'm talking about.

Now it might be possible to put the pipe-clamps on the top, with a scrap board  strip between the clamp face and the edge of the top, and then snug the clamps tight but don't force them. Then once every week or two .... tweak those clamps tighter a wee bit.

Like jacking-up an old house to get it level, ya gotta do it nice n' slow like.

And ps, 4 or 5 pipe-clamps would be better if the above is attempted. 

[bigwull]

There you go again Cogar....more Gobbledygook,....you and Mart are talking about pipe clamps,...as if we all know what they are....but we don,t....when you are discussing remedies...maybe you should first look to see where the item is,..before saying t should be done this way or that....Over here in the UK...where said chest of drawers is....these "pipe"clamps,..are unknown to us, but if you had said ...use a Sash Clamp....then we,d know what you were talking about.....

[bigwull]

"Like jacking-up an old house to get it level, ya gotta do it nice n' slow like"

Maybe if it was built proper in the first place...there would be no need for .."jacking it up"...Don,t you guys put in stone/concrete foundations....this house that we,re in has stone foundations..to a depth of 7ft...then the outside walls 20in thick stone....and apart from settlement cracks when it was first built, in 1890..it has,nt moved ......the walls are still plumb..and the floors/ceilings are still level....

[ghopper1924]

"Like jacking-up an old house to get it level, ya gotta do it nice n' slow like"

Maybe if it was built proper in the first place...there would be no need for .."jacking it up"...Don,t you guys put in stone/concrete foundations....this house that we,re in has stone foundations..to a depth of 7ft...then the outside walls 20in thick stone....and apart from settlement cracks when it was first built, in 1890..it has,nt moved ......the walls are still plumb..and the floors/ceilings are still level....

Do you have no experience with clayey soils laddie??

Our house has 18 inch thick lower story walls, made of concrete, with 12 inches on the second story. Solid! And yet we get cracking. Why? Because the soils underneath are "clayey," which means they expand, heave, and contract according to temperature and moisture. Given enough time and years they'd bring a castle down, through no fault of the builders.

[bigwull]

Thankfully we don,t have this problem very much in Scotland...Here in Brechin...we have one of the oldest houses in Scotland...it dates back to the 15th century,..It was renovated last year,...but the foundations were solid...it was the upper storey and the roof that needed the work see link....

http://www.myplaceawards.org.uk/galleries/2013-gallery-of-entrants/the-merchants-house,-brechin.aspx.

[ghopper1924]

Well done!!

[mart]

Cogar,, thats why I said "patience" is needed !! And a bit of know how !! Yes something has to go between the clamp and the top !!  I used a couple of thick old magazines at each point  when I had to do something like that and each clamp should be tightened by the same amount over a period of time !!  Then when close enough put the wood glue in and finish tightening once each hour or so till you get a good fit wiping any excess glue off with damp cloth between each turning !!  Leave the clamps on 24 hrs before removing !!
I just think it would look better if done !!

[bigwull]

If this was going to be repaired...a gap filling glue is what should be used...otherwise... you,d have what Cogar has said, snappin crackin & poppin....all that would be needed would be 3 x sash clamps...and a small bottle of Gorilla Glue,..tension the clamps against the top edge, damp the joint then apply the glue, there would be no need to tighten the clamps,...as all they are there for is to stop the glue pushing the wood apart,....once the glue has set, remove the excess, then all he,d need would be a small tin of Brummer,...then a small bottle of French Polish,....the crack will always be visible, but it won,t go anywhere,

[robgil]

Concrete foundations? Thats sacrilege! You dont use concrete on a period house. My house was built in 1520 and the sole plates were put straight down on the clay, thankfully someone came along in the mid 18thC and put brick plinths under the sole plates but they used lime, not cement.
Anyhow, back the the chest, I'd love to french polish it but again refinishing it would leave it refinished and I dont think whats left of the old finish is bad enough to warrant it.
What I have found in the past (especially working on old buildings) is if you try to repair historic movement it could cause more damage than you end up repairing and in this case I think its best left alone. I'ts done a real good job of staying together this long all by itself. Apart from the cracks all the joints seem sound and it feels very sturdy.
I have had another brief look at the sides and they really dont seem to be veneered, I cant see any traces of veneer on them at all. They seem to be stained red. I wonder if the sides were replaced at some point? One side without veneer might indicate an accident or repair but both sides?
The only thing I can think off is it was never veneered in the first place or the veneer was removed to repair something else.

[robgil]

Ive just brought the thing down stairs into the light to give it the once over. The drawer runners are badly worn and the stops are cutting into the drawer bottoms. One thing I have noticed is a mixture of press cut nails and square head nails, there are also signs of circular saw and rip saw marks on the drawer sides and bottoms. I can feel the marks of hand planing in the wood on the interior of the chest where the timber was planed by hand so its a complete mixture however I guess that as times and tools changed over the years cabinet makers might not have adopted these changes until much later on.

[bigwull]

1520....= Listed building...which in turn means you may have bought it but in reality you are only the custodian...and any materials used must be in keeping with the original construction...if not..then you,d no doubt have planning and building control breathing down your neck...not forgetting..the Heritage people,A friend of mine up here in Scotland fell foul of Heritage Scotland...a few years back...she,d bought a Grade 11 listed house...she got all the relevant planning permission..from..t he council,..then started to renovate..during the brenovation..they came across a boarded up fireplace..that was not on the original plans...well, ..you know whats coming next.....They took the fireplace and surround out...as they deemed it Pot Ugly,..and they sold it...for £3000 They eventually finished the house,got their completion certificate...and that was that??....or so they thought....fast forward 8 years,..They decided to sell the house..as it was at the height of the property boom..and cash in and buy bigger...they put it on the market..within 2 weeks they,d had umpteen viewings.and An offer they could,nt refuse,....then this Pot Ugly fireplace came back to haunt them...the prospective buyers had done a very thorough search..of all the previous owners,works that had been done...and lo and behold...they found a picture that had been taken within the house in the 1920,s...and there in the forefront was this "ugly" fireplace....which as luck would have it, had been designed by the Master himself Robert Adam,...
to cut a very long story short...my friend had to buy back that same fireplace...and reinstate it into that house..and she and her husband had no change from £48,000....Listed Buildings....you can keep them...more trouble than they are worth....They might look pretty with their rustic timbers and thatched roofs, or clay tiles, and flagstoned floors, and inglenook fireplaces...but when it comes to doing work on them...you are at the mercy of the council....they say jump...you say how High...






..
They finished the house..to the satisfaction of the planners...never mentioning the fireplace...