Carved cinnabar plate?

[agreeneyes]

I purchased this plate at an estate sale.  I've done some research but I'm not an expert so this is why I've come to the experts for help.  Is this what is referred to as carved cinnabar.  There is an oriental stamp on the back of the plate and it appears to be some kind of resin that is hand carved.  If it is cinnabar what would be the value of this plate.  Any information would be greatly appreciated and thank you for your time.

[Ipcress]

Looks like it. Modern though but still well made. Well done for getting the mark the right way up !

Basically, i think it says it's a copy, or made in the manner of, a Qianlong plate, but it is modern.

[agreeneyes]

any idea of value? thank you

[Ipcress]

Not a great deal - £30 - 40

I'll confirm what the mark says once Easter is over 

[agreeneyes]

I found two online auction websites one is liveauctioneers the other is nadeauauctions and they list the same identical plate with the exact same mark as mine and they're estimating this plate between $100.00-$300.00.  They refer to it as a Qianlong they don't mention it as being a copy.  liveauctioneers also has another one identical to mine and they refer to it as Qing Dynasty and they estimate that one $1000.00-$1500.00 and time frame of 1644-1911.  The back of the plate is black like mine with the same mark as mine and the same carving.  How would I know if I have a copy?, thank you

[Ipcress]

Do you have a link ?

Qianlong was an emperor of the Qing dynasty. Wouldn't you find it odd if an auction house couldn't give a closer date range for an item other than somewhere between 1644 and 1911 ?

There a subtle differences in the marks for originals and later copies.

The mark and the brand spanking new appearance of the plate indicate it's not 300 years old.

[bigwull]

Your,not reading properly...,..as one auction house is saying only Qing dynasty,1644...1912....no mention..of the emperor Qianlong.....so it could be 100 years old...or it could have been last month

[Ipcress]

I've read it fine - just explaining why Qianlong and Qing. Haven't seen the description so it could just be that's how they describe things - it's usually the same with Japanese items which are described as Meiji period.
They wouldn't say Qing if it was last month 

[bigwull]

But they did,nt say it was last month,...you said it was a fake,and i said it could have been last month..

[agreeneyes]

I've copied and pasted two links, but when I copied and pasted them in my browser I was unable to access the link.  I'm not sure how to copy the link to this website but they have the same plate different with different estimates.  I do want to sell this so I want to make sure I'm correct on the value of this plate.  If you explained to me how copy the link I will try again and post it. 


http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/12444703_chinese-carved-cinnabar-lacquer-plate-qianlong



http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/7742030

[Ipcress]

Well neither of those plates sold, which says something.
Also, they said it has a Qianlong mark but didn't describe it as a Qianlong plate. This is what auction houses do when they are unsure and do not want to commit themselves and run the risk of having an unhappy customer.

It has the same scene but is more detailed and looks older. The fact there are at least two plates out there with the same scene on them suggests to me there might be one in a museum or collection somewhere that has been copied.

[agreeneyes]

I'm not sure what this is then, is it still hand carved cinnabar but more modern or recent or some kind of a resin mold?  Looking at closely there are imperfections and unevenness in the design so  it appears to be hand carved.  I've also seen other plates with this design and color but they don't have a mark on the bottom of the plate or if they have a mark it's not the same as mine.  If this is a copy the value is less than a $100.00?  Thank you

[Ipcress]

But they did,nt say it was last month,...you said it was a fake,and i said it could have been last month..

no mention..of the emperor Qianlong.....so it could be 100 years old...or it could have been last month

If they've described it as Qing dynasty then they're not saying it was last month - that was my point.

I didn't say it was fake.

[Ipcress]

I'm not sure what this is then, is it still hand carved cinnabar but more modern or recent or some kind of a resin mold?  Looking at closely there are imperfections and unevenness in the design so  it appears to be hand carved.  I've also seen other plates with this design and color but they don't have a mark on the bottom of the plate or if they have a mark it's not the same as mine.  If this is a copy the value is less than a $100.00?  Thank you

I assume you're US based - can you tell me near which City ?

[agreeneyes]

Southern Califonia near Victorville, thank you