Meissen, but poor condition?

[patpatt]

These plates (luncheon size) have crossed swords and have very little of the gilt on the scalloped edges, also I think it is one of the more common Meissen patterns to turn up in US...but just wondering what a value might be or how to determine. I saw 12 for sale for $800, that doesn't mean anyone would pay thet...and I am assuming the lack of gold will considerably lower the value? And yes I know they might not be real, but how to determine?

[Ipcress]

No
20th century copy / reproduction in the style of. Some early Worcester looked like this, too.

The impressed numbers help give it away.

[cmlindb]

I found one that sold in south Africa...... not too much money there...
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/53516199/Meissen_Floral_plate_perfect_condition_wired_for_hanging_on_the_wall.html

[cmlindb]

All the ones I'm finding aren't too much money. By the war r60 is like $7

[patpatt]

That photo does not even resemble the same plate but......Even if it is not real, it has to be from the late 1800's, as it was listed in the guest book as a wedding present in 1886 or 87, not that that changes anything about the authentid=city.

[Ipcress]

I found one that sold in south Africa...... not too much money there...
http://www.bidorbuy.co.za/item/53516199/Meissen_Floral_plate_perfect_condition_wired_for_hanging_on_the_wall.html

That just looks like standard Dresden or just someone copying the crossed swords mark. Meissen was better quality and used a different paste, although later items did look more like the porcelain we see today. Glaze, weight and texture are different though.

[Ipcress]

That photo does not even resemble the same plate but......Even if it is not real, it has to be from the late 1800's, as it was listed in the guest book as a wedding present in 1886 or 87, not that that changes anything about the authentid=city.

The plate you've posted an image for was purchased in the 1880's ?

Are you sure it's the same plate ?

[patpatt]

so you are saying no Meissen has mold marks or impressed marks?

[patpatt]

positive, was a wedding present , from her mother ...the log shows "scallop edge hand painted Meissen luncheons" from Mother and Daddy ...and my grandmother had them and passed them down...I am going to pull another one out that might show up better detail on back

[patpatt]

fake as well?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Meissen-Porcelain-Floral-Dinner-and-Tea-Set-/120975139676?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2aae235c

[cmlindb]

Nope lets disregard my first post there.... was just looking through meissen and it was the first fake I found

[Ipcress]

fake as well?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Meissen-Porcelain-Floral-Dinner-and-Tea-Set-/120975139676?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c2aae235c

Wouldn't call them Meissen, no. Do you know how many companies used crossed swords, or how easy it is to put an underglaze mark on ?

[Ipcress]

so you are saying no Meissen has mold marks or impressed marks?

No, not at all. They do, just usually look different and during the best period, which people usually mean when they say Meissen, they were incised, not impressed.

That heavier moulded rim just isn't their style. So i'd have said Dresden early 20th but if you're positive it's late 19th then maybe it is. A photo at an angle might help - difficult judging from photos in certain light.

The Meissen figures and centrepieces that are so popular - the early ones have incised marks. The paste used for the porcelain was of different quality which produced a slightly different glaze or sheen to them. Later ones have impressed marks and appear more uniform, like modern figures.

[patpatt]

took these in daylight...there are also 2 faint shallow divets on the bottom of the plate on the other side of the back rim, they are so faint I just could not get them to photograph.

[mart]

I agree with Ipcress,, too heavy, and those divets are from the firing !! They can`t sit flat so they are raised on small cones !!  It might help if you looked at some of Meissens known crossed swords mark !! That would help you know what to look for in an original !!