How Old is Great Grandma Charlotte's Porcelain Box?

[talesofthesevenseas]

Hey gang, I need some help with this one. I was recently given an old porcelain box that my great-grandmother Charlotte kept on her dresser. There is an impressed letter "L" on the bottom, there is possibly something under the L, but I can't say for sure.  I've looked for L hallmarks and all I could find was that it may be for Limoges France and that this implied quality to the purchasers but there was no indication of when it might have been produced.

The porcelain is quite thick. It might actually be something more like ironstone. I just can't say, but it is different than most modern porcelain.

The painting appears to be done by hand. I've included a high-res up close image at the bottom so you can see this. Some of it is painted with tiny dots, some of it is not. The clothing style suggests the first half of the 1800s but I suspect that it may be romantic nostalgia for this time period and actually dates to something later.

My cousin described this as a "pin box". I see them online listed as snuff boxes, pill boxes, pin boxes, dresser boxes and I'm not sure what the original use may have been. It measures 2" across.

Condition wise it has obvious issues. Lots of crazing to the glaze, lots of chips and staining in the chips. There seems to be no crazing in the painted area, which I find kind of interesting.

So what can you tell me about Grandma Charlotte's box? This part of my family was very good about saving old family pieces and it very well could pre-date Charlotte, who lived from 1885 to 1966.












Here are a few of great-grandma Charlotte:

[talesofthesevenseas]

It looks like you will need a link to view the high-res image full size. Click this link:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x124/talesofthesevenseas/DSCN1019_zpsc1de3a73.jpg

[KC]

Wow.....wow....I'm speechless (and hardly typing)!  I just love these well-loved items and thanks for including pics to make it personal Talesof!!!  This is the part that so many who post on this site forget...it is the family members behind the piece that give an item it's TRUE VALUE!!!!

Without even reading your information first...my first impression was that of a French etui, or keeper.  The red clay is gorgeous and gives it novel beginnings.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Oh! So that's actually the clay beneath the glaze and not staining! I had not thought of that. I have so little experience with anything other than dishes. I guess I'm on the right track with thinking it may be French then.

I'm glad that you enjoyed 'meeting' Charlotte through her photos. I thought it would help give a sense of how old the box might be to see the lady who owned it and the time periods that she lived in. The photo of her with the baby is probably a little prior to her marriage and she is holding her youngest sister Peggy. The one where she is sitting on the grass with my great-grandfather Joe would be after their marriage in 1910 and then the one where they are both elderly is their 50th wedding anniversary in 1960. I have a few dim memories of her from her visit when I was very little. I was four years old when she passed and called her "the lady with blue shoes". 

[talesofthesevenseas]

I should add that there were other items with this that dated to earlier ancestors like an 1848 city directory full of notes and an 1860 ambrotype photo, so it could easily pre-date Charlotte, especially since it is so dinged up. Charlotte was exceedingly careful with her blue and white dishes and most have survived without any damage whatsoever. The more I think about it, banging something up like this just doesn't fit with what I know of Charlotte.

[sugarcube5419]

tales--are the blue and white dishes in your hutch the ones you speak of here?

[talesofthesevenseas]

Yes. The blue and white comes down through Charlotte, there are pieces that belonged to....

Charlotte's mother Emma Curtis Rand Richardson (my great-great-grandmother):





The oldest pieces date to Charlotte's grandmother Julia Avery Rand (my great-great-great-grandmother):

[KC]

Wow, wish I had as many pictures of my family as you do.  That is priceless!

[talesofthesevenseas]

Thanks, it is nice because it gives you a sense of who they were.

So is there any way to date this box? If it is French, maybe it dates to Emma's time. A lot of the blue/white china was English and was sent to her by a relative who was traveling in Europe. I really don't know how to date it without much of a hallmark.

[KC]

Still looking....

Is is "heavy" for it's size...as if it is glazed pottery.  Or is it light, as if it is a red clay slip used...like the feel of china?

[talesofthesevenseas]

Definitely feels heavy to me.

[Ipcress]

I'm thinking early to mid 19th. Lovely thing.

[sugarcube5419]

the eyes have it do they not?

To me they all have the same look......

so nice tales

[greenacres]

Tales must be so organized. Your family has taken such good care of their history. When I was at the museum talking to the asst. Curator, she explained that unless photos are documented they are not interested in them. People have wanted to donate old photos but they had no clue as to who they were.

[cogar]

So what can you tell me about Grandma Charlotte's box? This part of my family was very good about saving old family pieces and it very well could pre-date Charlotte, who lived from 1885 to 1966.

Tales, the wife was reading your post .... and told me .... "I have one just like her's".

So yes, the wife has a similar porcelain box with the same dimensions as yours ..... but no picture, just advertising. And given its history, I will mimic Ipcress's date of "early to mid 19th Century" for your Grandma Charlotte's box.

The one pictured below belonged to the wife's great-Grandfather (1815 – 1895), which should date it somewhere between 1830 and 1885 (from the time he started shaving until the time he wasn't shaving or shaving as often).

And ps, the street address on the box is .... 182 Chestnut St., Philadelphia.

Here is the lid and box together.


The inside of the box and top of lid.


Top of lid and side view of box.