Old wooden signs

[Rauville]

Interesting and unique for sure, but those gable board signs create some curious questions.

A couple being...the “Ransomes and Sims” leads you to believe that it is pre 1869 (that being the year the company name changed, and with the equipment shown). Yet on the other hand, the “South Eastern and Chatham Railway” didn’t start using that name combination until 1899. If it is a 1899+ era piece, why depict obliviously much earlier rolling stock to attract passengers?

Regardless, whether they are old originals or artistic recreations made to decorate a public house, they have the look that would be popular to a wide spectrum of buyers.

[jacon4]

I don't know about GB but in the states, antique wood signs are a big deal. There is a wide and varied collector market, antique people, folk art people, advertising people, etc. 18th/19th century tavern signs for instance, can go for 10s of thousands of dollars, repo's can get pricey too if done by a known artist.

[mart]

I am not sure that the 3-D part is wood !! There is a band around the outside of it that makes me think it was molded and applied to the wood !! I found a company in Kent, England that did smaller 3-D plaques by molding them in plaster then dipping them in wax to harden !!  The company started in the UK 1898 and operated until the 60`s !! Sold out in 1971 and operated under a different name til 1996 !! Just can`t find anything large they did !! Most were historical images for decorative purposes !!

[Petesy]

These ones are fairly high res pics you should hopefully be able to zoom in, im pretty sure they are all wood or at least they felt like it however with the paint i would but im unsure, except the balloon the balloon bit is definitely not wooden i have no idea what technique would have been used its feels fairly solid (but i wouldn't want to test it!) i think perhaps plaster i do think the basket and wee men are wooden i will need to investigate more tomorrow but i will post a few more pics (fairly high re so can zoom)  

[Petesy]

Dickens pic 2

[Petesy]

Cobb x 2

[Petesy]

Train

[Petesy]

Train 3

[Petesy]

Company history for Ransome & Sims

1850 - Ransomes & Sims, open London Office
1851 - Charles May leaves & Later starts Brown and May in Devizes.
1869 - Ransomes Sims & Head, (Also Ransomes & Rapier formed by agreement by 4 of firms engineers, takes over the rail components business)

So im hoping this one was made between 1850 - 1869

[Petesy]

and lastly

[mart]

Haven`t seen the last one yet but the others are all attached to the sign board !! You can clearly see the glue lines and the cobb ale there is a division around his head !! There is a hole where he would have had either hair or a hat attached !! The color is lighter where it would have been !! He is also missing something from his hand !! He and the ash ale look to  be moulded and applied to the sign board !! The Ransome Sims is made of wood but also attached to the board !! Railway sign is made of wood too !! Neither would be difficult just a lot of pieces and glued together !!

[Petesy]

Ah right, so I think you are right about the plaster moulds, so the balloon one wouldnt be as old as i originally thought the  ransome and sim and the trains would likely be wood glued together but would the majority of pieces be hand carved?
& would that make them a lot newer than I was originally hoping? (I take it the older the sign/poster the more valuable it would be?)

The Dickens guy is holding what looks like a wee glass (it didnt show up very well on the pics) at least that is what it looks like, however it may have been something that has broken off in the past, he is holding his hat on his left hand so im thinking it must have been hair if something were supposed to be there, i will look closer at it after work.

I still think they are pretty cool so if they have no real value I will stick to the original plan and just hang them up. (except that Dickens one! haha) I got them for free anyway so its not as if i have been ripped off.  

Thanks again

[mart]

Well rest assured they do have value !! I would say quite a bit of value !! I missed the balloon one,, will go back and look !! I see nothing that indicates hand carved other than a few smaller pieces where it took little to create the shape !! Some parts are just wooden dowels !! Even with that,,add in the sign painters art that brings the pieces to life and you have some exceptional items !! Age is not much of a determining factor in value so much as the overall look and desireability of the signs !!  Just don`t try to restore them,,touch them up,, or anything !!  That kills their value !!

[mariok54]

"Ah right, so I think you are right about the plaster moulds, so the balloon one wouldnt be as old as i originally thought the  ransome and sim and the trains would likely be wood glued together but would the majority of pieces be hand carved?
& would that make them a lot newer than I was originally hoping? (I take it the older the sign/poster the more valuable it would be?)"

Don't write them off until you get someone to look at them. If there are any plaster moulds then that does not mean they are not old, plaster has been around for a long time! It may have just been part of the design, but if it is plaster, then it survived well!

[mart]

True !! Plaster dates way back in history !! If they are plaster I would think it may have been mixed with something to make the figures less heavy !!  Similar to the plaster medallions used in Victorian era !! Otherwise they would be super heavy and the sheer weight would have likely made them separate from the wood backing !!  These seem to be in good condition considering where they were found !! If you just take into consideration the board/frame weight and the figures don`t seem to add much to it,, then could be a more modern material !!! You can tell plaster or modern material by tapping with your fingernail on the figures !! Modern resins are hollow for signs and have a higher pitched tone than plaster that is usually thicker and sounds rather dull and flat !!