I need help authenticating an ancient roman ring?

[grjpbeatles2]

I am new to this forum, so please forgive me if I am not going about this the right way, but I have recently purchased an ancient roman ring (c 100-400 AD), and now I am questionable about its authenticity. Here is what I can tell you about:

- In a message, the seller informed me, "The items were purchased at the antiquities auctions in London about 35 years ago. The dollar was equal in value to the English pound and in one Phillips antiquity auction alone (now Bonham’s) we purchased 32% of all the lots offered. The items were described and cataloged by the antiquity specialists and their credentials are second to none. We purchased over 7000 items and had sea freight deliveries twice a year. We supply a certificate with our items. We also have sold to some advanced antiquity collectors."

- The seller says it is bronze. It is size 11 1/4, and as far as the way it feels, it has no 'give' to it whatsoever. It is quite immovable.

- I sought some help with this on a similar forum elsewhere, but they have sofar not gotten back to me, and i didnt know if anyone here could help. On that other forum, all I was told was: "Similar rings were made from Roman times until medieval times. Without finding a ring with the same design in a book (which I don't have time to do), I do not know if this particular ring is Roman or later.  Someone else may be able to help with that. A certificate of authenticity from a a seller does not have to be fake to be wrong.  A certificate is only as good as the seller's expertise. Many sellers call all these little copper rings Roman (most probably believing they are)."

[mart]

Did you ask which auction company this ring was purchased from ?? It said that they purchased from Phillips but didn`t say that this ring was a part of those lots !!  I have looked at several of those sellers and seriously doubt anything they say !! They give no direct evidence to prove anything !! That is CYA !!  Some say they were dug but will not say from where or what dig of which most are recorded !!  And the sheer number available for sale is questionable !! My understanding of that time is that most rings and jewelry were from upper class society,,not from the lowly working class !!  May I ask what you paid for this ring ??
Ooops !! Forgot to say welcome to the forum

[grjpbeatles2]

They informed me that they "purchased over 7000 items and had sea freight deliveries twice a year." I paid $200. I am sorta hoping that someone will be able to tell me if this was made with modern tools, etc by examining the photos. If it is not authentic, I will return it. The seller has gotten only positive responses, but I wonder if anyone has actually ever had one authenticated for themselves and called them out on it if the items were falsified.

[mart]

But from what auction company were these purchased ??  There will be a record of that !! 35 years ago isn`t that long !!

[grjpbeatles2]

"Phillips. The items were sold on lots and often the lots contained 5-10 items in including Roman glass and various other antiquities. We have thousands of auction catalogs from Christies, Sothebys, Phillips, Wallace and Wallace etc. At one time we tried to match up each individual item but found the task impossible."

[Ipcress]

I've never known anyone buy 32% of one catalogue.


The ring seems about right, though. A few hundred years AD, although it doesn't look classically bronze. That might be due to image / cleaning though.

[bigwull]

They informed me that they "purchased over 7000 items and had sea freight deliveries twice a year." I paid $200. I am sorta hoping that someone will be able to tell me if this was made with modern tools, etc by examining the photos. If it is not authentic, I will return it. The seller has gotten only positive responses, but I wonder if anyone has actually ever had one authenticated for themselves and called them out on it if the items were falsified.

The mere fact that you are on here,tells me that you have doubts as to its authenticity...my personal opinion would be...get your money back...and buy something you are happy with..because if you don,t,and if it can,t be proved one way or the other...you will forever question..is it,or is it not.....

[grjpbeatles2]

I assumed (wrongly apparantley) that surely, along with the ring itself, I would be sent more information on the ring: where it was purchased, lot number at auction, etc in addition to the authenticity certificate I was provided.

My question is, how do you know if a seller is genuine, other than basing your judgement just on what their telling you?

[Rauville]

Here's a multi-page presentation on "fake Roman rings" with enough examples to keep me from collecting them...until I got a lot wiser!
http://www.collector-antiquities.com/141/

[jacon4]

Yeah, I am going with Rauville on this one, if one does not have knowledge in a particular collecting field, you MUST have the object authenticated by an independent third party. Otherwise, you end up where you are.

Although wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy out of my collecting interest, your ring is metal (bronze) and it seems like it's been heavily cleaned which is usually a NO NO in metal objects.

[grjpbeatles2]

(Bucket list) Learn a valuable/costly lesson about buying something you have no knowledge about: Check.

What makes this even more frustrating for me is that I dont have another picture of an authentic similar ring to compare it to like those in the link. Now im sort of on a mission to find out for sure about it.

I sincerely thank all of you for your feedback sofar.

[Ipcress]

Here's a multi-page presentation on "fake Roman rings" with enough examples to keep me from collecting them...until I got a lot wiser!
http://www.collector-antiquities.com/141/

It's the same with old coins. Get them under a glass and you can see fakes a mile away, moulds and casts leaving tell tale signs.

I noticed on the second page of that link they've been using coin detail to make fake rings ( top of the page, not those at the bottom )

Certificate Of Authenticity - worthless unless from a recognised expert. Anyone can mock one up with a laptop and printer.

My personal opinion is this is sound. Wear and ageing is uniform, shoulder design looks fine but if the buyer continues to have doubts then ask for his money back

[mart]

One tip I can give you about sellers on ebay !!   If no one else is bidding,,there may be a reason,,and always check "bid history" if there are several bidding against you !! If there are several bidding and they have very low or less than 10 feedback that auction is loaded !! Figured that out when buying a saddle on ebay !!  Many times feedback can also be loaded by shill bidders where no actual money ever changes hands !! They all work in cooridination with the seller !!