Author Topic: Please help - Henry VII Dagger  (Read 6861 times)

Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2013, 02:56:01 pm »
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Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #16 on: November 02, 2013, 02:57:02 pm »
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Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2013, 02:58:21 pm »
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Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2013, 02:59:31 pm »
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Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #19 on: November 02, 2013, 03:00:35 pm »
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Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #20 on: November 02, 2013, 03:01:33 pm »
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Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #21 on: November 02, 2013, 03:02:35 pm »
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Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #22 on: November 02, 2013, 03:03:36 pm »
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Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2013, 03:07:24 pm »
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Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #24 on: November 02, 2013, 03:09:06 pm »
Final image. Again, sorry for multiposting, the max size allowes to upload only 1 pict in that res/size.

Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #25 on: November 03, 2013, 11:14:53 am »
I like the sound of that actually.  Any chance of a couple of clearer images, especially the hilt and the blade ?


Looks like a presentation piece, just trying to ascertain age.

I know of something similar but need more evidence

Could you please share your opinion and this similar piece you know of?

I'm completely layman in antique weapons so my observations could be totally wrong, but here they are:

1. Hilt - seems to be highly practical - cloth and pieces of leather (anti-slip I guess). It does not match the rich carvings, if that is the presentation item. Also, it seems that texture of the fabric is threadbare, like it have been used, not only presented.

2. Back side of sheath - also highly practical, as any carvings on that side could damage the clothes (especially delicate fabric worn by noble ones - like velvet used for ceremonial robes/mantles of Order of the Garter members) and also seems to be worn and torn.

3. Front side of sheath - these carvings are so rich and done with such precision, that comparing with presentation item like http://www.eliteauction.com/catalogues/011412/view.php?id=9 for sure they were made by better skilled (or better paid) artist.

4. Originally in the collar of the Order, each garter is surrounded by 2 roses but Henry VII changed the design for one rose only - there are 2 roses under Henry VII bust on the sheath.

5. As symbolism of the carvings isn't coincidental, I assume that those bottom carvings also mean something: halberds, swords, spears, shield and armor may point that the original owner was somehow connected with weapons. The face at the bottom may be the portrait of the original owner, for which the dagger was crafted.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 03:52:56 pm by Makafi »

Ipcress

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2013, 04:33:28 am »
http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/lot/two-carved-ivory-daggers-and-sheaths-german-1328248-details.aspx?pos=95&intObjectID=1328248&sid=
( on the left )

The following one was made in the 17th century and features Henry VII






The " trophy of arms " is often seen on military swords and daggers, either on the blade on the sheath scabbard.

It may well have been worn but this isn't something to use in battle - think about the practicality of an ivory crossgaurd. Presentation / ceremonial is my opinion


more later once i've had an archive search !

Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2013, 05:28:53 am »
Thank you very much!

I wrote "presentation" in the meaning "put this on top of your fireplace" - of course I agree that it's ceremonial item - rather than a battle weapon.

If you'll find anything - please share. I should receive opinion from "Value My Stuff" tomorrow so we'll be able to check, if our investigation went the proper track :)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 07:53:26 am by Makafi »

Ipcress

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2013, 06:22:26 am »
You mean " Value My Stuff " ?

Makafi

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Re: Please help - Henry VII Dagger
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2013, 07:35:14 am »
Yes, sorry about that, a typo but it turns out to be funny a bit :D I'll correct this.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 07:52:51 am by Makafi »