Waltham Pocket Watch

[debodun]

This was in the family safe deposit box. From the mark inside the cover, I determined that it's a Waltham watch. It has a leather fob attached with a medallion (1.5" diam) from Saratoga Springs, NY. It also has the winding key. From other research, if I can assume the number on the cover is the serial number, it dates to around the mid-1800s. If I decided to sell it, I really don't know a fair price to ask. I can't find any exactly like it on eBay.

[Rauville]

Nice old watch. The number you see would relate to the case. To determine the age of the watch, you need to open the back of the case and check the movement for the actual serial number. Waltham produced Key wind watches until 1919.

[Ipcress]

I think in this case Rauville that is also the serial number. Relates to a Model 1857 which was made in 1858.
That lion mark was also used on Waltham's from this era.

Incidentally, Lincoln was given a Model 1857 after the Gettysburg Address

[Rauville]

I think in this case Rauville that is also the serial number. Relates to a Model 1857 which was made in 1858.
That lion mark was also used on Waltham's from this era.

Incidentally, Lincoln was given a Model 1857 after the Gettysburg Address

OK...I was remembering the American Watch Co. (A.W.Co) mark as dating back to early 1859.

[mart]

Saratoga Springs was a popular resort area !!

[Ipcress]

Was one of 399 made with the CT Parker movement after that was reintroduced for the model 1857


Can we see an image of the movement ?

[debodun]

Certainly!

[Ipcress]

Right, so this is one of those occasions where the number on the case is not the movement serial number.

This dates from 1865 and apparently a William Ellery movement.

If you look 3/4 down this image, you'll see the range for your serial number and the date, c Jan-Feb 1865



I'd post a question at the following forum and get several opinions.

http://mb.nawcc.org/forumdisplay.php?11-American-Pocket-Watches

[debodun]

Thanks for the additional info. I am waiting to hear back from the Pocket Watch board.

[Rauville]

Whoops...Looks like this one is going to end up to be a Swiss Fake movement. It was a common ploy for retailers after the Civil War to use cheap Swiss movements with American sounding names to fool buyers. Even though the watch and movement are both period antiques, the value will be affected rather adversely I'm afraid.
I hope you will receive better news from the watch forum.

[Ipcress]

Me too, Rauville, although why do you think this is " fake " ?

The Union Watch Co fake i saw had no serial number and used different calligraphy.

Fake

http://ihc185.infopop.cc/groupee_files/attachments/6/9/7/6971086671/6971086671_Image004.jpg?ts=529B6BFF&key=1CB662D3FB750BF85B57DE26D2A00DB6&referrer=http%3A%2F%2Fihc185.infopop.cc%2Feve%2Fforums%2Fa%2Fga%2Ful%2F7971086671%2Finlineimg%2FY%2FImage004.jpg


Different to this watch and the one sold here ( you can zoom in on the image )

http://www.aantv.com/page/leftbid/tvshow_id/1247274

Also note the fake is more elaborately gilded.

[debodun]

A reply to my inquiry on the NAWCC board said, in his opinion, that it was a "Swiss Fake".

[Ipcress]

Well they should know but i'd wait for more opinions.

There are differences to yours and those on the internet regarded as fakes.

I've read the official info about imported movements and this company are listed on there. Depends what they mean by ' fake ' i guess

[Ipcress]

An interesting read but they list certain characteristics to look out for.

That dodgy ' font ' isn't used on Debodun's and the Union Watch Co isn't listed, although it is on another site

American Names on Imported Watches
Prior to 1871 the United States was flooded with European made watches which were given
American sounding names. Many came from companies in England using movements made in
Switzerland. In 1871 Congress passed a law requiring all watches to be marked with country of origin.
Some of the most popular names used on these imported watches were:
BRISTOL WATCH CO., BRISTOL, CONN.
EAGLE WATCH CO.
EXCELSIOR
MARION WATCH CO.
OHIO WATCH CO.
PENNSYLVANIA
PHILADELPHIA WATCH CO.
ROXBURY WATCH CO.
UNION WATCH CO.
WALLINGFORD WATCH CO

[greenacres]

I think this a real examples of that 1857 pocket watch. http://clicktempus.com/president-lincoln-secret-message-pocketwatch/ read below.