Byzantine Eagle Ashtray - Russian?

[frogpatch]

This ashtray measures 4 x 4 inches, is brass and was among the effects of my father-in-Law. He was mostly Greek but his mother comes from Poland but was of German extraction living in Lodz until around 1920. Prior to 1917 Poland was part of Imperial Russia. The Russian eagles typically have their wings spread with a crest on the breast but not always. I see that in the Greeks also used the Byzantine eagle in a coat of arms and some Orthodox Church flags. My question: Is this Russian from the pre-Bolshevik era or from somewhere else. Cigarette smoking was present around that time of the revolution but became more widespread after the start of WWI in Russia and Europe if that helps. I tried to research this but time constraints do not allow for that in depth right now. That is why I am asking you all for help. Thanks

[Mat]

Hi frogpatch,
being a German living in Greece, I have seen here lots of souvenir items in brass and bronze with the Byzantine "dikephalos"-eagle on them. Also the style of the eagle and the floral decoration try to look Byzantine. The Russian imperial eagle has indeed the crest with St. George on its breast, so I do not think yours is Russian. Maybe your father-in-law got it on a trip to Greece, or someone brought it to him from there? Being him mostly Greek that seems a logic explanation to me.
Best wishes from Greece  ,
Mat

[Ipcress]

I'd say Prussian, with Polish or Germanic influences around the eagle. Don't think it's Russian.

[Mat]

Hi Ipcress,
I don't think this is Prussian, I have never seen something like that in Germany... Actually there is one ashtray like this on ebay now, but instead of the eagle it has the Parthenon in the center. The eagles are only at ther borders. When you search aby for "greek bronze ashtray", you will easily find it.
Regards, Mat

[Ipcress]

There are plenty around which are similar. I'd say Prussian origin.

Could be Russian, although i'd expect the area around the eagle to be neater. Could be Austro-Hungarian but unlikely. Could be Byzantine, although i think shape / style are more similar of Prussian / German items i've seen. For instance, if you remove the cigarette rests, you have something which resembles the Eisernes Kreuz




The eagles have been used with wings spread or withdrawn.

A nice item, Frogpatch, but possibly too generic to be pigeon holed, especially without a mark of some description

[frogpatch]

Thanks! I see there are several online that are the same and are being called whatever. I agree with Ipcress. I will probably never know. It fits good in the indentation in my smoking stand along with this cool little lighter that I found. It is sterling jacketed and is from the Netherlands.

[Ipcress]

Yes, that practically screams " Dutch "

Although i agree with other suggestions about the eagles etc, shape and form can be equally important. You can have one country which takes a competitors style ( say Japan and China ) but the design can reveal more than any mark could.


Anyway - nice thing, FP !

[Mat]

Hi again, I do not doubt that that is a very generic form of ashtray, but I am sure this one was made in Greece. Have a look at ebay item 281279586816 . There it is, nearly identical, with a " MADE IN GREECE" on it. Mat
 

[KC]

Definitely made in the same style, etc.  Great search job Mat!

Does the back of yours look the same (minus the stamp) frogpatch?

[Ipcress]

Hi again, I do not doubt that that is a very generic form of ashtray, but I am sure this one was made in Greece. Have a look at ebay item 281279586816 . There it is, nearly identical, with a " MADE IN GREECE" on it. Mat
 

Nice spot but there are other similar which are unmarked and sold as German or Russian. There are also items originally made in one country and later made in another with new marks on. The ashtray on Ebay is more modern than the one Fropatch has.

Like i said, i think it's nice but also it's not unusual ( as Tom Jones once sang )

[KC]

Thanks alot Ipcress.  I have visions of my grandmother swooning to Tom Jones stuck in my head now!  LOL

[Ipcress]

He could move, too !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UxU8s7Au0A

[mart]

Your grandmother   Thanks a lot KC !!  You really know how to make a person feel old !! 

Thanks alot Ipcress.  I have visions of my grandmother swooning to Tom Jones stuck in my head now!  LOL

[KC]

Mart - No, no no.....not meaning agewise!  LOL   He was my grandmother's favorite and let me tell you....she was a full-of-life, red headed ray of sunshine that made everyone happy around her!!!!  Sparkles in her eyes that amde you think she knew much more than the rest of us!  Oh, to be like her!  She loved life to the fullest and uplifted all those around her!  Lived to late 90's! 

She would howl out his songs and swing her hips....just makes me smile to think of her!

[frogpatch]

Here is a pic of the underside.You can see that it is cast. I would have posted this originally. The eagle impression can be seen in the bottom. The one on ebay is a half inch smaller and the detail is not as intricate. Being that my wifes mother was born in Greece as were three of her grandparents, there is a pretty good likelihood that is where it came from, even though the one grandparent was form Poland which was Russia at the time.
 Some of you may have remembered this icon that was found that was Greek. I still have not had the writing deciphered on that. Here it is restored.When I opened it the entire picture was drawn by pencil in detail and the faces had painted halos.