Author Topic: Brass or bronze unknown item ?  (Read 5296 times)

gerspee

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Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« on: May 03, 2015, 03:31:13 am »
Another find in my collected stuff laying there for many years . To me it looks Chinese or Japanese and may a belt buckle or something in that way for a uniform ? So any idea about what it is and made when and where ?

Thanks

Mat

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2015, 12:35:00 pm »
Hi, I am not sure what it is, maybe the belt buckle idea goes in the right direction. I would think that it is Chinese because of the bat ornament. I have no idea about its age, but it does not look new to me...
Mat

mariok54

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2015, 12:38:36 pm »
What size is it?

gerspee

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2015, 01:39:17 pm »
Total length is 10 cm and wide 5 cm . 

fancypants

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2015, 12:08:49 pm »
It looks rather like a Chinese 'lock' for a box hasp , to me , gerspee .
" Methinks me the 'mental' in sentimental .... "

gerspee

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2015, 03:41:59 pm »
Difficult thing but any idea about age ?

fancypants

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2015, 10:19:41 am »
Just a bad guess , although slightly unsure ... there are what appears to be striations along the length of the main body of your lock , which indicate to me that it's maybe of more recent age (late 20th century) , than not .
Old (antique) Chinese items with the same function tend to be well-finished/made & don't show such indications on the metals' surface .
" Methinks me the 'mental' in sentimental .... "

gerspee

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2015, 01:22:30 pm »
No must be a lot older looking at the history off it . 

fancypants

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2015, 05:28:19 pm »
Yeah , gerspee , I'll believe ya'  !

There was a surge in Chinese boxes/furniture (& slinky dresses) in the 20's , 30's , some into the 60's-70's too ...
" Methinks me the 'mental' in sentimental .... "

awhitetriangle

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #9 on: May 06, 2015, 01:35:22 am »
looks to be a spring barb lock, one of the earliest forms of lock, this one however looks fairly modern, i have an really old puzzle lock in the collection that works on the same principal. i'll post some pics later...

gerspee

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2015, 03:47:27 pm »
Thanks and would like to see the pictures .  ;)

KC

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #11 on: May 06, 2015, 10:05:20 pm »
I would like to see as well.  Always something new to learn about something old!  :)
I'm from the South - but please don't mistake my Southern Manners/Accent/Charm as a weakness!

awhitetriangle

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2015, 12:22:40 am »
here you go, bit of history it was found in a 17th c building, the finder thought it was seized due to it being covered in rust and went at it with a file and some sandpaper sadly. he still couldn't open it! its a multi stage puzzle, it has a key but no key hole, it took me a good few hours to crack it! here's how it came to me...











anyone got any ideas on how to open it?

awhitetriangle

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #13 on: May 07, 2015, 12:30:41 am »
from the lock museum:

The spring barb padlock is a very ancient form of locking mechanism and is capable of an amazing variety of variations. No one knows who or where it was invented but is widespread in the Old World and seems to have its roots in the Middle and Far East regions. It first appears around the 1st or 2nd century BC and spreads to most parts of the Old World. It’s also likely that it’s one of those inventions that was transmitted via the activities of merchants and trade routes. The question is unlikely to be definitively answered.

The key, whether sliding or turning compresses a number of spring barbs which when locked block the shackle from being withdrawn. As the name suggests the barb, which is made from spring material and attached to the shackle, can be pushed forward through apertures, compressing the spring barbs as it goes and springing apart once locked, thereby preventing withdrawal. The correct key whether sliding or turning style compresses the barbs so that the shackle can be withdrawn back through the apertures and removed. Many locks also contain fixed ward elements as well.

Locks have been found in a variety of metals including cast brass, bronze and iron. Some are assembled by soldering or braising the various parts together whilst others are totally assembled by riveting. Embellishments in the form of decorated brass panels, or symbols add another dimension to the security of the lock

Each region or culture imbedded into their everyday products a certain amount of their own culture or belief system, padlocks by their very nature of keeping possessions safe were subject to design and embellishment features to increase its effectiveness. For example the Chinese Foo Dog, Fu Dog or Lion Dogs is a well-known symbol representing the Chinese guardian lions which in turn had its roots in the Buddhist tradition symbolising majesty and loyalty. They are depicted in pairs and are placed at the entrances to Temples, public buildings and even the home for protection and to ward of negative energies. One, a female with a cub, guarding or looking after the building owner’s family and interests, and the other, a male with a ball symbolising the globe and looks after the interests of man and civil order. When used in padlock form, particularly in pairs, they would have also been a powerful psychological deterrent.

Many other animal-shaped padlocks can be found which would convey a subliminal or subconscious message. The fish padlock for instance, popular in China at a very early date. The fish sleeps with its eyes open and therefore the inference is its always watching and on guard, or the elephant indicating strength. Its possible that a prospective purchaser of a padlock would base his decision primarily on his affinity with the deity, or spirit animal that was represented.

Another method adopted was the puzzle or secret padlock. Some with sliding keys others with turning keys and even some with both! However on first inspection no place can be found to insert the key. A secret shutter, panel or flap had first to be moved in such a way as to reveal the key hole. In 1889 a certain Sun Kam Shing patented his puzzle padlock (dated April 1st 1889 number 5556) which featured a secret or concealed keyhole, a feature which had been adopted for centuries!

Not all padlocks were intended to physically protect property. There were in many cultures other purposes for employing a padlock. In the Islamic world for instance, when visiting a shrine a pilgrim would tear of a strip of his clothing and attach it to the shrine grillwork with a padlock thus locking an affirmation, a practice which still continues today. Locksmiths would set up at the entrance making and selling padlocks for this purpose.

Another tradition, relating to women during confinement was the ceremonial application of a special knotted cord with a loop at each end and secured with a padlock. A cleric would chant and at the appropriate moment during the proceedings lock the tiny padlock around the waist of the mother to be. This would not be removed until the ninth month again with ceremony. The females of the family treasured these cords and padlocks, which were handed down from generation to generation.

In China a miniature padlock was traditionally given, particularly to the new-born, as an token of protection and well-being. These miniature padlocks were often made of gold or silver in wealthy families, and were also inscribed with symbols such as a five petal heart shaped blossom of the Prunus fruit trees. Five, being a sacred number, is also known as the Five Blessings or Happiness Blessings. Another motif popular for newly weds was a pair of birds which represent happiness. When used on a padlock the symbolic intention in either case is a wish locked to the individual or couple.

In fact the lock or the key has been used symbolically throughout the ages as a material expression of binding the intangible, providing insight or enlightenment. Take for instance the Papal cross keys to the gates of heaven or keys used in rituals and ceremonies – an aspect of the locksmiths craft that crops up again and again.

In modern times some padlocks carry on the symbolic or sub-conscious aspect such as Squirrel brand with the logo of two squirrels, implying “keeping goods safe until required”. Or Chubb’s fish logo suggesting it’s constantly on guard – could these also have been chosen as a psychological deterrent reinforcing the physical deterrent.

The spring barb padlock is still made today using the age old skills and techniques of a charcoal fire and a boulder as an anvil. As such it is almost impossible to date an example taken out of context and without provenance. Since the Industrial revolution discarded metal was recycled into all sorts of items including locks. One can imagine the Bedouin camped alongside a discarded steam engine gradually reducing the metal parts into a new lease of life. When travelling in the Middle and Far East very often these locks can be found in the more out of the way bazaars and flea markets and are even found without to much difficulty here in the UK, they were originally brought back as souvenirs. Most collectors accept that locks bought today at Bazaars whilst travelling or on holiday abroad may only be a few years old but what is important is that they are made in the traditional style and in the traditional way as generations of locksmiths did before. And in some small way this helps to keep the traditional craft of the locksmith alive.


cogar

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Re: Brass or bronze unknown item ?
« Reply #14 on: May 07, 2015, 08:32:16 am »

anyone got any ideas on how to open it?

My guess is, ….. a key “slot” is placed over the upper right “rivet” in photo #3 and a twisting action will move (slide) the rivet head and open the lock. ;D ;D

There was a “strongbox” posted on AFQ that had a “keyhole” and a “key” but the key didn’t work in the “keyhole”.  And that was because the actual “keyhole” was hidden under a “moveable” medallion on the backside of the “strongbox”.