2 more dishes I would like you to advice on

[casseman]

Can you please tell me about these two small dishes. I do not know much, if anything, about antiques so I appreciate your input. Thanks

[Mat]

Both dishes are Japanese, the one with the landscape looks like late Edo Shida ware to me. The other one is Arita Imari and I would think from the End of the Edo period. Let's see what others say...
Mat

[mart]

Mat,, you are the expert on things like this !!  I have no clue other than the Imari is 20th century !!

[KC]

👍👍 Mat!

[Ipcress]

Both dishes are Japanese, the one with the landscape looks like late Edo Shida ware to me. The other one is Arita Imari and I would think from the End of the Edo period. Let's see what others say...
Mat

Have you seen those red seal marks on Shida porcelain ?

Agree with the Imari but I think this might be later.

[mart]

And there is our other expert,,Ipcress !! Where ya` been ??

[Mat]

Hi Ipcress, I have seen similar red marks on Shida porcelain, and it seems that the enamel decoratio on them was made in Arita. But I have done some searching today and think now that this exact mark is related to a certain Arita kiln, that was active from the Edo period into the Meiji period. I will try to find out more about it. I have a plate (see the pictures below) with this mark myself, which I always believed to be Shida, as it shows certain characteristics of that ware, but it seems I was wrong. The other imari plate has an unusual mark, I tend to date it to the late Edo period, but it could be later of course...

Mat

[Pelady]

from the Edo period into the Meiji period.

Hi Mat and Ipcress

I know almost nothing about Asian antiques but love to learn.  When you talk about  Chinese and Japanese dynasties or periods would it be possible to include estimates in dates?  example: When I looked up Edo period it is a 250 year range (1650-1868).  It seems like it is very difficult to narrow down an item. Is that because the same items are produced by the same artisans , shops or schools for centuries?

PeLady

[Ipcress]

Hi Ipcress, I have seen similar red marks on Shida porcelain, and it seems that the enamel decoratio on them was made in Arita. But I have done some searching today and think now that this exact mark is related to a certain Arita kiln, that was active from the Edo period into the Meiji period. I will try to find out more about it. I have a plate (see the pictures below) with this mark myself, which I always believed to be Shida, as it shows certain characteristics of that ware, but it seems I was wrong. The other imari plate has an unusual mark, I tend to date it to the late Edo period, but it could be later of course...

Mat

Yeah those dishes look like those i've seen where the well has been painted later - pretty standard bowls and dishes which are then decorated and shipped for export or sold to tourists. Meiji to early Taisho period.

[Ipcress]

from the Edo period into the Meiji period.

Hi Mat and Ipcress

I know almost nothing about Asian antiques but love to learn.  When you talk about  Chinese and Japanese dynasties or periods would it be possible to include estimates in dates?  example: When I looked up Edo period it is a 250 year range (1650-1868).  It seems like it is very difficult to narrow down an item. Is that because the same items are produced by the same artisans , shops or schools for centuries?

PeLady

Hi Pelady !

It's easier with the Chinese items where the Emperor reigns help split the Dynasties into smaller segements.

Meiji period Japanese porcelain is much more common than Edo period and the appearance of the Satsuma ' mon ' is always a handy guide for collectors.

Here are a few websites which you should bookmark

http://www.taimantis.com/chinese/ming1.html
http://www.gotheborg.com/index.htm
http://www.e-yakimono.net/html/karatsu-markings.html
http://www.ukiyo-e.se/signatur.html  - useful for artwork, scrolls

[Mat]

Pelady, you are totally right, I will try to explain better those terms when I post, it's just that sometimes I do not have the time for long posts and just try to give the basic informations...
Just to add some more links to the great list Ipcress posted, there is a very good publication on Chinese ceramics that your can download for free on the site of the Metropolitan museum: http://metmuseum.org/art/metpublications/A_Handbook_of_Chinese_Ceramics?Tag=&title=handbook%20Chinese&author=&pt=0&tc=0&dept=0&fmt=0 . Of course most of us will never hold in their hands pieces like the ones shown there, but it gives a very good introduction in the history and styles of Chinese ceramics. For Imari porcelain, there is an informative site here: http://www.imari.com/ . And for Japanese woodblock prints, there is another great site with tens of thousands of images: http://ukiyo-e.org/ .

Now again to casseman's dishes. I was wrong in my previous reply. The one with the four character mark is in fact not Imari, but Kutani ware imitating Imari. The dish in the earlier post ( http://www.antique-shop.com/forums/index.php?topic=18538.0 ) is also such a piece.
In the Kutani area some kilns produced very elaborate "recreations" of Old Imari (called Ko Imari) from the early Meiji period (1868-1912) until the early Showa period (early means 1926 up to WWII). For a history of these wares see: http://www.kutanimus-volunteers.com/english-kutanistudy2011-04.html . There are also informations about these on the imari.com site, and for some examples, look here: http://www.nishikawa.to/tokyohomepage/goods/daishouji-n.html .
For the dish with the red mark I have not yet come to a final conclusion, but it is clearly not Daishoji ware, but comes, as said,  from the Arita area.

Mat

[Ipcress]

The Kutani / Ko Imari factor would help explain why i said they resemble copies or imitations.

If you look at the Gotheborg site, the Imari also resembles the Fuki Coshun dishes and those imitating the Chinese marks.
That red seal mark on the other dish similar to the Hizen mark.



I know of a charity shop which once took a few pieces of porcelain into an auction house for valuation. One of them was in fact Meissen Kakiemon and sold for about £3,300.

[casseman]

Thanks Mat, Ipcress for your time and detailed information. Good learning process for me even though that I am brought down to reality and the items may not be as antique as I hoped. But it is very interesting to know. I be back soon with some more items.

[Ipcress]

Thanks Mat, Ipcress for your time and detailed information. Good learning process for me even though that I am brought down to reality and the items may not be as antique as I hoped. But it is very interesting to know. I be back soon with some more items.

They're still nice and very collectable - i really liked the charger and the second dish in this thread is one of those that should appreciate in value.

Look at it and tell me you don't see something art deco about it ?! Very ' now ' in it's design.