Meet "Vicky" the Carousel Horse

[talesofthesevenseas]

I need advice on how to remove the modern paint but preserve the original factory paint... if it's there.

This little horse was just too good a deal to pass up at $100 and so I'm picking up "Vicky" on Saturday. One of the advantages of owning a real horse is that when you tell your honey that you bought another horse, then reveal that its made of wood, they are relieved!

Here's what I know about this one. It is European, from a small traveling carousel similar to this one. The carousel in this film is at the Chelsea Fair of 1914 and the carousel dates to 1890. Notice that it is being pushed by men!
https://www.facebook.com/Catawiki/videos/1021552074548503/

Carousel horses are always more detailed on the outer side and in Europe most carousels turn clockwise, whereas in the USA they run counterclockwise. So in addition to having a very typical "perky" style to the carving, and being quite small, (35"L x 24" H x 8" W) I can tell that this horse comes from a European carousel because the detailed side is on the horse's left side.

There would have once been stirrup leathers with iron stirrups, you can see the bracket is still on the horse's side, and leather reins. At least one piece of the hardware is still there. The eyes are glass and there is the remains of an original horsehair tail. All of these I can buy online including a tail *shudder*.

Ideally, I would like to find out if the original factory paint is still there under that gawd-awful paint that is there now. I could use advice on how to strip away modern layers to reveal the earliest paint. I suspect it is still there as it is much easier to simply paint over old paint than to remove i. I see that car restorers are using oven cleaner to do this, but it might be different with wood. I know that when I stripped the old paint from my china hutch, the modern stuff came off easily with regular paint stripper, but the original lead paint was a monster to remove. So let me know if that is the best way to go.

If it turns out that there is no original paint then eventually I'll have it painted. This will be expensive, but will increase the horse's value greatly. I got a general quote from a very good professional carousel restorer of "under $1,000" depending on what I want done. Although there are cheaper options, if I have to have it painted, it's better done by a pro.

Resetting the leg should be pretty straightforward, but I would like to hear any suggestions you all have. More photos Saturday.

[ghopper1924]

Bravo on your purchase, and well done on the research! If only everyone was so painstaking.

My choice on this would be to try a small, unobtrusive area to see how the paint stripping goes. Failing that, get a pro to repaint it. Since you got such a deal on the purchase, you can pump the money you MIGHT have spent into an amazing paint job. Your horse is so eye-catching that you'll want to be satisfied every time you look at it.

Oh, and in the film clip it looks like one of those women is wearing aviator shades? Anyway, I would guess pushing a carousel around beat duty in the trenches in WWI!!!

[talesofthesevenseas]

Thanks! Yes, I think that's definitely the way to go, by doing a test spot. It looks like most of these horses were originally dappled gray or white and I would expect it would look rough and rustic. One good sign is that the cream/tan colored paint that is on there now appears to be crazing and cracking, so I'm hopeful that it will lift off fairly easily and reveal the original paint underneath.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Here is the website of the restorer, Lise Liepman: http://www.liseliepman.com/Lise_Liepman_Studio/Photo_Gallery/Photo_Gallery.html

[ghopper1924]

Wow, so cool! She's talented.

[Pelady]

Hi Tales,

This is a website about train restoration that has lots of different opinions on removing layers of paint (including from wood) without destroying underlying paint.  It includes ideas from oven cleaner to art restoration methods.
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=39195&p=245902

Did you ask your restorer about removing paint layers one at a time?

PeLady

[KC]

Congratulations on your acquired TREASURE!!!  Nice find and for a GREAT PRICE!

Agree test spot.

Wow.  The restorations are amazing - especially the burned and rotted pieces! 

I would ask her about stripping since you may be passing it her way. 

[mart]

You might check to determine what kind of paint it is water base or oil base !!  Many times I have ran into things that are plain old house paint !!  Use a wet terry towel and heat gun or blow dryer and see if the paint releases with steam !!  If so just use  a teflon scrubbie to remove it !! ( gentle scrubbing) !! Paint thinner on Q-tip to check for oil base !!  The leg is no big problem and can be re-attached by any competent woodworker !!  If you are going to display the horse try to find an antique pole lamp from that era !!  The ones that have the heavy ornate base !!  Cut the pole to length and put a rubber furniture tip on the cut end !!  Looks like yours does not go completely through the horse like  a carousel pole would so yours needs to just sit on the pole !!
 Hope that is clear !!  I have two vintage spring horses that are about to become carousel horses but mine will go completely through the horse with a finial on top !!

[talesofthesevenseas]

Hey gang! It's 1:00am and I'm home with Vicky, absolutely thrilled with everything I'm seeing. The horse is tiny, no bigger than a rocking horse, I'll take a picture showing how small tomorrow. Absolutely authentic. Everything is there that I want to see- Head angles slightly outward toward the audience watching the carousel, belly plate is there, lots of old peg repairs, signs of heavy wear and carnival use. Plus a couple of things that I did not expect, little details that only people familiar with horses would include. This is so cool...

First, here's a great article on identifying carousel horses actually used on carousels. There are tons of wooden repro horses produced in Mexico and Asia , but this article is very good and shows pictures of new versus old:
https://www.realorrepro.com/article/Carousel--Horses

I think we have original paint under a couple of layers of outer paint, however the outer layers look old, like it may be lead-based. I'm really not sure at this point. I really appreciate the info on removing paint layers on old trains. I haven't had time to read through it yet, but that's exactly the type of info I need, thank-you!!!

Great idea to use an antique floor lamp as the base! Definitely will do that! Yes there is a through hole all the way through for the pole. These horses were suspended. (See the video in the previous post)

I can't get a single picture to load in Windows 10. I may have to post pictures on Monday from work.

[mart]

Darn !!  Ipcress couldn`t see pics on one post and now Vicky`s pic is gone !!  Must be site problems !!

[talesofthesevenseas]

Yes I saw that. Not sure what is going on.

[mart]

Did you use the ad pic to post here ??  Could be that after you bought it the ad was removed or deleted !!  Thats  why it says the pic can`t be found !!

[talesofthesevenseas]

I tried linking pics adding pics nothing is working if it doesn't work Monday from work I will try making a new topic

[talesofthesevenseas]

Here are the pictures, very pretty glass eyes



Underside, damage to the forelegs and view of the iron belly plate.



Hardware is there for the stirrup leathers



Hardware is there for the bit on both sides. Interesting that there is a gap in the teeth for a bit, just like a real horse has.



Lots of old peg repairs all over the body.



Another peg and lots of crazing to the outer layer of paint. I'm hopeful that this outer layer will come off easily. I think the original factory paint is under there. There looks to be two or three layers of paint



I love this! Not only are there the remains of carved horseshoes, but see that cleft in the center? That's called a frog and real horses hooves have them. Whomever carved this little horse, seems to have known a bit about horses, that would have been common knowledge back in the day.



One ear is more or less intact, the other is just a nub, but I don't feel like this is a problem, I can imagine little kids hanging onto those ears! If I can preserve the factory paint, I think I'll leave the ears as they are.
Love the look in this horse's eyes and expression on the face!

[KC]

Vicky has lots of charm - if only she could talk!