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Author Topic: William & Mary table  (Read 13968 times)

jacon4

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William & Mary table
« on: September 25, 2016, 02:47:08 am »
Okey Dokey, fabulous W&M new york city walnut table up for sale in a couple weeks. Dated 1731 and most likely built by german speaking immigrants because of the inlaid decorations of tulips. This table was last sold at northeast auctions in 2003 for 93k, purchased by Albert Sack for a virginia collector.  More pics at the link.
https://pookandpook.com/lots/americana-october-8-2016-lot-448/
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jacon4

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2016, 02:52:33 am »
Also in this sale is a great southern pie safe, sale estimate of 2-4k and, if it goes for anything close to that, a bargain. Pics at the link
https://pookandpook.com/lots/americana-october-8-2016-lot-1/
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mart

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2016, 06:25:47 am »
That table looks like cherry and walnut !! Looks like cherry top rail, inlays ??
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jacon4

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2016, 06:57:06 am »
Yellow pine, painted. Fine example of that form, probably virginia, 1st quarter 19th century
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mart

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2016, 08:49:29 am »
Both the table and the pie safe are nice,,but the safe would be my preference even if a little "busy" !!
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ghopper1924

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2016, 09:42:56 am »
Looks like now's the time to buy the table. It looks like it's estimated to go quite a bit cheaper than the last time it sold.

In any case, my preference would be for the table. Love that bell/abstracted cup and cover motif on the legs.
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"I collect antiques because they're beautiful."

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jacon4

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2016, 11:44:10 am »
I would think that the time (1730s) and tulip inlay would point to Holland, not Germany.
 
Well, first off, Holland is not a country, Holland is a part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. It gets a little complicated over there which is why i changed to "german speaking immigrant".

Both the table and the pie safe are nice,,but the safe would be my preference even if a little "busy" !!

Mart, if you picked the table and sold it, you could probably buy a dozen or more of the best examples of pie safes.
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mart

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2016, 01:15:18 pm »
You know I only bet on a sure thing !! And that table is not it !!  Besides its more than my pickers budget allows !!
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ghopper1924

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2016, 02:19:47 pm »
Second off, when I crossed the eastern border on the train into the country, the Dutch border police asked me how long I was staying in Holland,by far the most populous provinces of the Netherlands. They seemed relaxed and confident that I knew what they were talking about; maybe they need an American to tell them what they should be calling their own country.

In 1731 the Dutch in the former New Amsterdam would have been speaking Dutch, not German. At that time Germans would have been far more likely to settle in Pennsylvania. The German flood into New York was in the 19th century.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 02:34:34 pm by ghopper1924 »
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jacon4

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #9 on: September 25, 2016, 02:53:10 pm »
Lol, yeah i hear you but no, Holland is not a country. It is a bit confusing, there is a north & south Holland but both are provinces in the nation of Netherlands. Hey, they are all square heads to me and speak german! so i say whats the diff but to them, it's not all clogs, windmills & tulips. Although i hear they still make those wooden clogs for the tourists!
The official language is Dutch,a West Germanic, Low Franconian language (whatever that is) that originated in the Early Middle Ages (c. 470) and was standardised in the 16th century. Most people there speak 3 languages, dutch, german & english.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 03:01:13 pm by jacon4 »
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jacon4

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2016, 03:12:07 pm »
You know I only bet on a sure thing !! And that table is not it !!

Yes it is! You could buy a whole house full of kick ass pie/food safes for what that table will bring.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 03:29:00 pm by jacon4 »
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jacon4

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2016, 06:28:06 pm »
Here is a little diddy on new amsterdam (New Netherland) from the history channel and, according to them germans were there as well as many others.
http://www.history.com/news/the-dutch-surrender-new-netherland-350-years-ago

It's kinda like Austria, it's not germany but they speak german, ditto the Swiss so i lump them in there too.
"Pennsylvania Dutch"  the word "dutch" does not refer to Dutch people (Nederlanders) or their descendants, but to Deitsch or Deutsch (German).

Bottom line, its just easier to say german speaking immigrant.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2016, 06:44:47 pm by jacon4 »
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mart

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #12 on: September 25, 2016, 06:48:36 pm »
Pennsylvania Dutch just refers to the art form/style of decoration,,not the people !!
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ghopper1924

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #13 on: September 25, 2016, 06:54:25 pm »
Yes, I know about the Pennsylvania Deutsch and the devolution in pronunciation that lead (and still leads, on occasion) people to mistakenly call these people of German descent "Dutch." Because there is a difference, just ask anyone from Holland...or The Netherlands.

I'm sure there were Germans in New York, just as there were in Boston, Baltimore, Richmond and most other American cities in the 1730s. My point stands. The Dutch (who spoke Dutch, which is its own language despite its strong resemblance to German) were masters of marquetry and still quite prominent in what had until recently been New Amsterdam. The principle German immigration to New York didn't take place until the 1800s.

Dutch craftsman. It sounds so plausible!
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jacon4

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Re: William & Mary table
« Reply #14 on: September 25, 2016, 07:07:10 pm »
Dutch craftsman. It sounds so plausible!

LOL, OK, have it your way! Thing is, no one has attributed that table to anyone but me, i see those tulips and that compass star and BAM! Germanic themes if there ever were any.
I have been looking into "Fraktur" recently, which means fractured or broken letters. It's a germanic folk art form that used to be cheap but now is hideously expensive for good examples and it has tulips, birds, stars, hearts, etc as a central theme. Really cool stuff!
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