Author Topic: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!  (Read 11946 times)

benbenny007

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Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« on: March 02, 2017, 02:18:40 pm »


My new project.
Any knowledge about this artist?  I first bought it without knowing it had a signature. The previous owner had no idea what it was and sold it to me as a painting with no signature. Only things which let me to buy than were the numbers and inscriptions on the stretcher which could point out that it was hanging somewhere in a gallery, museum or part of a collection. Looking at it now after all these years and can see very vaguely a signature which I missed the first time, its almost impossible to read.

I believe the signature is made out of two names and followed by a year. The first name probably reads Frank I'm guessing, or does it read something else? (picture below with the paper snip is where the signature stops.) 
The signature is partly covered with paint It appears as if the artist signed the canvas first before he started painting.

Need to know the age of the canvas and frame to start research, is it 18th or 19th century? I'm guessing its mid/late 18th century?? Its painted in a unusual style for a painting from that time period. It shows a village scene and two knitting women to the left.

Does somebody has the artist books or knows this style.  It was bought in the UK so it can be a English artist? but it could also be Dutch because of the name Frank.

I know its all about details and I got plenty pictures below, maybe that will help.
Any help is welcome






















« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 04:21:51 pm by benbenny007 »

benbenny007

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Re: 18th or 19th century oil painting? Artist?
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2017, 02:17:33 pm »
No success yet with identifying the signature.
Drives me crazy. Any help on age to start more specific research on artist from that time period.
Is my guess correct that the first name is FRANK ? Need second opinions



« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 04:22:22 pm by benbenny007 »

Rauville

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2017, 06:48:24 pm »
Funny, the first artist I thought of was an early California artist, Franz Bischoff. Obviously not, but vaguely similar in style, maybe a first name of Franz(?) might be worth investigating. Good luck.
http://www.the-athenaeum.org/art/detail.php?ID=44876

mart

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2017, 07:41:06 pm »
Nothing yet,, still looking !!

benbenny007

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2017, 11:28:33 am »
It could be a American artist. Painting was bought in London so it can be a artist from any country because London is a multicultural city and people come and go every day..

I managed to get the signature a bit clearer by making the black ink wet which made it darker.
Not sure if the signature exist out of two names and a year, or three names?
Looks like the end read 02 or 03 but not sure. need help.


mart

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2017, 01:36:50 pm »
Let me study the new pics later,, making bread now !! It is two names !!

greenacres

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2017, 07:58:09 am »
Frank Dane or Pane. Have to look.
" Energy and Persistence conquer all things."

Chrislondo-London

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2017, 01:56:31 pm »
You are searching wrong. Always look for the details!

First all its not early 19th century and certainly not 18th century! Its also not Dutch.
The canvas is not that old! It is made from sack cloth. Artists re-use old canvas because it can be available without paying any cash, something artists are usually very short of. Recycling is nothing new, neither is chucking out stuff that others can use. The name Frank is used in different countries. Other fact is that's impressionist in style, so Id say more early 20th century. This particular combination of landscape, architecture, and clothing, indicates it is not Dutch. The costume of the lady in the back looks like a generic French peasant costume, with a white 'fichu' or kerchief and a white cap with flaps hanging down the sides. This style of dress was still worn in the first half of the twentieth century. That model white cap was also worn in parts of Belgium. But in Belgium white-washed villages are seen in the flat lowlands, not the hills.

My conclusion, it is French, or at least painted in France, in an early twentieth century style, in the early twentieth century. I have a large collection of regional costumes from different countries. I have most publications on Dutch regional dress from Bing & Braet onwards, including some Bing & Braet/Frans Buffa publication original lithographs. I can assure you that from the 19th century till now there are no Dutch caps that look like that. Most white caps were worn over precious metal frames (oorijzers) anyway, you would at least see some gold glistening through the white.
The north of the country, Friesland, Groningen, Drenthe, West Friesland, did have white kerchiefs for sunday dress, often over silk tops, but different caps, and this is nowhere near the flat, green north of The Netherlands.
It is also hard to find yellow stone and white-washed villages with red roofs and pale blue shutters in the few 'hilly' areas. And look at the way the roof of the first house on the left looks. A Dutchman would have repaired that straight away, after all, what would the neighbours think;)!

The combination of the yellow and white houses with pale blue shutters and lovely sloping roofs, the villagers and the landscape, reminds me very much of rural parts of Burgundy. Including the picturesque state of disrepair.
But I can't be 100% certain.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2017, 02:43:43 pm by Chrislondo-London »

ghopper1924

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2017, 02:40:16 pm »
Despite the borderline rude tone of the comments, which also caused a stir with the forum regulars in the Chinese Painting thread, I believe that Chrislondo-London is right: This is probably French, early 20th century. You can tell that this artist has seen Cezanne. Also, the way the frame (which looks contemporary to the painting) is molded looks to be from that time period as well. My guess: 1910-1930.
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Ipcress

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2017, 10:00:20 am »
It's English, he's called Frank Dean ( 1865-1946 ) but might be from a follower / school of the artist where someone has " borrowed " his signature.

Looking at the subject matter, style and technique, i'd say it's possibly the latter, although i have seen differences in an artists's work during their career ( particularly going from early to peak or from peak to later years )

Frank Dean was 81 when he passed away and this might have been one of his later works.

Chrislondo-London

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2017, 11:57:36 am »
It's English, he's called Frank Dean ( 1865-1946 ) but might be from a follower / school of the artist where someone has " borrowed " his signature.

Looking at the subject matter, style and technique, i'd say it's possibly the latter, although i have seen differences in an artists's work during their career ( particularly going from early to peak or from peak to later years )

Frank Dean was 81 when he passed away and this might have been one of his later works.


No its not Frank Dean!
Its not even close to his works, style and signatures. I have subscriptions to all mayor art databases and no work, style or signature comes close to this one. 

Ipcress

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2017, 01:21:41 pm »
The signature is Frank Dean
It is similar to a few of his paintings
If you read my post, i said it might not have been  painted by Frank Dean

Example

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/keys-aylsham-salerooms/catalogue-id-srkey10056/lot-38eecd7b-3556-4e5b-b7a1-a4440046dbea

Signature

http://www.tate.org.uk/art/images/research/831_10.jpg

To say that signature doesn't even come close is incorrect. The same " font ", the same drop on the K.
He painted some very grand, expansive paintings but i've appraised and valued enough in my time to know that saying this isn't him could be a mistake similar to which you warned Mat about in another thread.

ghopper1924

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2017, 03:03:41 pm »
The "Frank" definitely looks similar, although it looks like the last name is longer than "Dean."
"I collect antiques because they're beautiful."

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mart

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2017, 05:42:51 pm »
I am going with Ipcress on this one !! But I don`t think its late in his career  !!  The canvas and frame have too much age for that !!  I think its an early one !! His style simply evolved as other artists do !!  But the basics are the same as his other paintings !!
Someone said there might be numbers at the end of the last name !!

ghopper1924

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Re: Signed 18th - 19th century oil painting? Project!
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2017, 06:21:47 pm »
I am going with Ipcress on this one !! But I don`t think its late in his career  !!  The canvas and frame have too much age for that !!  I think its an early one !! His style simply evolved as other artists do !!  But the basics are the same as his other paintings !!
Someone said there might be numbers at the end of the last name !!

The frame looks like first half of the 20th century, 1910-1930. Who said that there might be numbers at the end of the last name? If that were true then it would all make more sense.
"I collect antiques because they're beautiful."

-Broderick Crawford