Deer Effigy

[mart]

Thanks KC !!  But that answers my question,, !!  The information provided by this seller could have been for anything !!  There is no description of the items associated with this lot !!  Normally there would be a list of the items especially if they were leaving the country where found !!  I mean customs office would need that I think !!  They were pretty strict about pre colombian artifacts and others even in the 50`s !!

[KC]

I also agree about the items not being individually described.

I know I have friends that brought items out of countries that had to have each item described as much in entirety.

So, either a copy of that original paperwork was left out or never received.

[Skinny]

Pretty safe to say that document does not in any way authenticate these items. I believe the seller liquidated an entire collection in New Jersey and that paper may have been associated with these pieces, other pieces, or a complete fabrication. Though it fails to authenticate, neither does that in itself prove these pieces are not real precolumbian pottery.

[mart]

Do some research,, see if you can find this Dr Bernal Diaz as director in 1960 !!  There was a Bernal Diaz de Castillo  born in 1492 !!  Thats the closest I could find !!

[Skinny]

I've tried lots of searches. Can't find the guy. Only the Bernal Diaz who was a Conquistador. Also I don't think the Mexican National Museum of Anthropology was built untill 1963, so the time frame seems off a little bit.

[mart]

I seriously doubt that your items are more than 50 years old and I am being generous with that timeline !!  Making and ageing these things is a cottage industry in many parts of Mexico !!  Most are sold to tourists !!    While I was looking yesterday I ran across another deer item that had a similar crack across the nose that was on ebay !!  It was made a little different from yours !!
And keep in mind that many things on ebay are fake !!  Like the listing you bought,, the seller never said that these things were part of that group !!  He just provided the information for you to read and you made the assumption that it was from that excavation !!  He didn`t lie,,so you can not fault him for that !!  Can`t even leave neg. feedback !!
I have watched many sellers like this,, they are an education in what not to do when buying on ebay !!

[KC]

I show that there was a Jesse R. Smith that lived at the address noted on the paper - but is now living in Montclair, New Jersey (age 88)

[Skinny]

I can't really see any big red flags in the pieces themselves. With the exeption of the grey vessle with the rattles on the sides. I'm sure often times bad unprofessional listings are by people trying to be deceptive. Sometimes it's just people who don't really know what they are doing selling things they don't understand. I've purchased scores of valuable antiquarian books for a fraction of what they are worth because of bad listings and uninformed sellers. The antiquities market is flooded with fakes,  but if all three of those pieces aren't real I feel like I got a good enough deal it doen't matter a whole lot.

[mart]

You are right,,many time those selling are just going by what they are told when they bought them !!  And as long as you like them it is not a bad deal !!  Integrity and honesty in selling is just a sore spot with me !!  I would rather buy from an individual that says he really doesn`t know what it is than one that practices some of the underhanded deceit on ebay !!  Thats why I try to get everyone to do their research first !!

[Raven31557]

Just putting in my 2 cents ...........
10 red flags jumped up and slapped me in the face when all you were shone was a picture of the paper work.
If it was genuine pre-columbian the documentation would have been sent to you, also.

[jacon4]

Late to this thread but, there is a way to determine the age of tribal art known as TL testing

Can you please describe the TL testing process, and the important role the Artemis testing lab serves?

TL testing (thermoluminescence) is one of many tools available to determine the authenticity of an item that is ceramic or made of terracotta pottery. It takes tiny bits of the pottery, done by drilling very small holes into unobtrusive areas, and subjects the samples to an analysis that ascertains how much stored light radiation is in that object. We can then graph the amount of this stored energy to determine when the pottery item was last subjected to high heat, and therefore created. By developing a commercial lab here in the United States, we are able to help collectors and dealers alike in selling authentic objects with scientific analysis as the proof.

To read the entire article on collecting tribal art
http://www.jasper52.com/blog/the-basics-of-collecting-tribal-art/