Victorian Needlework New Photos!

[ghopper1924]

Hey all:

I purchased this large piece in southern Illinois over the weekend. I know very little about Victorian needlework, but I liked this piece.

So: I assume this is American. Any ideas about date? What kind of needlework is this? Are the piece and the frame approximately the same age?

I like the walnut frame as much as the needlework. The frame is 23" wide x 27" high. The dimensions of the piece are about 17.5" wide x 21.5" high, but probably slightly larger to account for the frame. The original wood backing has been replaced by cardboard. I do not see any sign of initials or a name.

So, here are my guesses (and that's all they are). American, ca. 1870, replacement value $150.

[mart]

The frame is a later addition,, more 1940`s,, which is probably why the cardboard backing is there !!  Not unusual for families to re-frame needlework since styles changed !!

[KC]

I believe you have a Victorian crewel needlepoint of a pheasant on a Jacobean Flower Tree.

These needle work pieces were popular for pictures and pillows - but were actually used on many items in the 1700's (such as bed coverings/canopy bed covering, etc.)

Is there any way to see the back side of the stitching?  Just need to see if it is hand stitched or machine stitched.  The piece looks so "perfect"...

[ghopper1924]

I believe you have a Victorian needlepoint of a pheasant on a Jacobean Flower Tree.

These needle work pieces were popular for pictures and pillows.

Is there any way to see the back side of the stitching?

Victorian needlepoint of a pheasant with a Jacobean Flower Tree?

How would you date that?

I can tell you that the colors and stitching methods are used throughout, not just for the pheasant.

I looked at the back, and the cardboard is held on with a series of very old nails (no staples . It would be extremely time consuming to get the back off.

Folks on the "other" site believe it's a "new" piece (1940s-1960s) in a Victorian frame. I know there was an interest in "Ye olde Early American" back then, but somehow, like KC, I believe this needlework is old.

[jacon4]

uh ohhhhhhh, already posted it on other site huh, a competitor! bad mo jo! Mart says they treated her rough over there.

[ghopper1924]

Yep, I've been posting (most) everything on both sites, hoping for a maximum amount of input.

Funny, one person posted that it's a newer piece in an old frame, another that it's an older piece in a new frame. KC has had the most interesting answer so far, but she usually only gets on at night, so I'm waiting with baited breath.

Nobody's been rough yet, but things can always go south.

[jacon4]

well, i'll end up being about the same there as here as far as posting. no one on these forums collects my stuff and its very rare to see someone inquire about early furniture.

[mart]

Older needlework,,newer frame !!   

[ghopper1924]

Older needlework,,newer frame !!

But exactly how old?

[KC]

When I put that "the piece looks so "perfect" I am afraid that I am not meaning that it definitely shows that it is an older piece (1700's to mid/late 1800's).  There were pieces of beautiful handiwork over the years....but I would have to see the back of the piece to determine in fact if it is "handmade" or "machined". 

There are individuals "out there" that have embroidery done, using older threads on older material pieces...but a great place to start is 1) info from a seller, 2) proof of origin and/or 3)the "finishing work" done on the back side that isn't normally seen.

It does appear that the frame is newer than the handiwork.

[mart]

My guess on the needlework would be around 1900 to about 1920 !!  It was done for decorative purposes rather than as a learning experience like a sampler !!

[ghopper1924]

Thanks for the comments!

OK, I wouldn't do this for anyone but KC, but I pulled the nails out of the back and took the backing off. The linen is folded in on each side. Was it common to make a piece a bit bigger to fit whatever frame was at hand? Clearly whoever did this knew it was going to be in a big frame.

So OK, here are pictures of the back.  Any further opinions on date?

[mart]

Chances are that was just the size of the material at hand !!  Now that you have shown the back,,its possible the frame is also from 1900 to 1920 !! Patina of wood is about right !!   However they usually would have a more ornate pattern or trim on the frame !!   Plain frames were not common back then !!  My feeling is that it was still framed or re-framed later !!

[jacon4]

But exactly how old?

86 years, 3 months, 5 days and counting!

[ghopper1924]

Sounds about right.....