Author Topic: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)  (Read 11964 times)

jacon4

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #15 on: September 15, 2019, 11:44:06 am »
Guesses a Gothic style revival piece (with a couple other styles as well), probably made in Belgium. Gothic revival was very big in europe, A LOT of it around, particularly in late 19th- early 20th century.
As Americans, we pretty much missed out on this style as it is medieval or middle ages and we simply were not around then so we never had a "Gothic" period or even a revival.
Here is a cab that sold last year at Briggs in Pa, late 19th built in Belgium
https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/Gothic-Style-Carved-Oak-Cabinet_4A04B1AA30




ghopper1924

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #16 on: September 15, 2019, 11:57:43 am »
Yep!!
"I collect antiques because they're beautiful."

-Broderick Crawford

mart

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2019, 07:08:36 pm »
Jacon $,, actually we did have a Gothic period but it was not until about 1920 or after !!  Remember California Gothic !!  This cabinet has machine carved panels on front which began in ernest about 1890 annd  after  !!  The machinery was developed prior to that but since I gave the book to Cogar I can not give the date !!  I forgot !!  Europe did not have the  ability to do this work except by hand as far as I can find !!  I can not see any evidence of hand carving here !! 
No way to know really but I strongly suspect it was made here !!  Couple of hundred miles from Ft Worth to Fredericksburg Texas
which had a large German population !!  No huge producers but we had some smaller ones !!

jacon4

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2019, 08:34:31 pm »
Well, you know, almost anything is possible when manufacturing "modern" furniture as far as origins are concerned. When i think of "gothic" furniture, i am talking 12-15th centuries and, we simply have no history as americans that way. Might have been a few Vikings wandering around here though :) :) but no permanent settlements by european peoples.
It would be helpful to know what the primary & secondary wood species are on OP cabinet as a way to help determine what country of origin is, still, as of today with pics provided i am guessing european origin. It just has that "look" to me of european gothic revival which was a very big deal over there at turn of 20th century.
Who is jacon$, did he win some money? a prize? over here?
Just looked again at pics, the secondary wood on drawers looks like oak to me, european!  :P
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 08:36:44 pm by jacon4 »

AmberS

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2019, 10:06:27 pm »
Hey Amber:

Got any photos of your house? Sounds cool.....

Sure, I have one taken during a rare snow a couple of years ago, and one this spring when a few wildflowers popped up. For some reason, I'm not able to attach them to this response. I will try putting them in a new comment.

AmberS

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2019, 10:18:08 pm »
Guesses a Gothic style revival piece (with a couple other styles as well), probably made in Belgium. Gothic revival was very big in europe, A LOT of it around, particularly in late 19th- early 20th century.
As Americans, we pretty much missed out on this style as it is medieval or middle ages and we simply were not around then so we never had a "Gothic" period or even a revival.
Here is a cab that sold last year at Briggs in Pa, late 19th built in Belgium
https://www.auctionzip.com/auction-lot/Gothic-Style-Carved-Oak-Cabinet_4A04B1AA30


The sides are the same carvings as mine! I wanted to add another photo with the carving of a man wearing a helmet, but I guess I have loaded all the pics it will allow by now, it won't let me do anymore.

jacon4

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2019, 03:19:58 am »
"The sides are the same carvings as mine! "

Yes, that carving is called "linenfold" or linen fold, this is what Wiki says about it

"Linenfold (or linen fold) is a simple style of relief carving used to decorate wood panelling with a design "imitating window tracery",[1] "imitating folded linen"[2] or "stiffly imitating folded material".[3] Originally from Flanders, the style became widespread across Northern Europe in the 14th to 16th centuries. The name was applied to the decorative style by antiquarian connoisseurs in the early 19th century; the contemporary name was apparently lignum undulatum (Latin: "wavy wood"), Nathaniel Lloyd pointed out."

Flanders is the Dutch-speaking northern portion of Belgium, a big player in gothic revival furniture in late 19th- early 20th century in europe, which is why i guessed Belgium as origin.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 03:31:26 am by jacon4 »

cogar

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2019, 04:34:18 am »
Quote
I wanted to add another photo with the carving of a man wearing a helmet, but I guess I have loaded all the pics it will allow by now, it won't let me do anymore.

AmberS, ……. re-size your pictures for "web or e-mail", and then they will "up-load" to AQF.

Your photo-program probably has a "copy" or "save-as" function, … do it, …. then upload copy. 8)

jacon4

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2019, 05:15:17 am »
I'd say it's important to point out that value wise, it doesn't make much if any difference where your cabinet was made, whether here or in europe. This gothic style with it's heavy germanic/dutch strap hinges remains popular in europe and increasingly here as well.
 There was a discussion on another forum about this gothic revival style a year or so ago and i did a little research on period gothic furniture and posted some photos, i'll try and find them. Every country in europe had it's own unique version of this medieval style.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 05:28:41 am by jacon4 »

AmberS

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2019, 06:46:57 am »
Thanks for all the info~ my head spun around a couple times, especially about the "linenfold". The more I learn, the more fascinating this is. Hard to believe all you guys can just rattle this off from memory!!

Anyone willing to guess about the value? I've already bought it so that's moot, I'm just curious.

Also, I shrank my photos as small as I could, but I think I may have exceeded the total space allowed for my posting. I'm embarrassed to say I had to get my daughter's help to figure out how to use the "quote" thingy so I haven't specifically replied to everyone but THANK YOU to all who have written, I've read every word several times. Tonight I will go back and try swapping the original photos with smaller ones, maybe that will fix it. Then I'll be able to put in one of the house.

Actually, I just realized I can send a link from the historical society.

https://www.parkercountyheritagesociety.com/content.aspx?page_id=22&club_id=62524&module_id=55591&sl=992525244


 (According to them, I have overestimated the age of the house by four years, but...I still think I'm correct, will have to check papers.)  Compared to other old houses here, mine is very modestly dressed- basically just a big farmhouse, but it feels very spacious inside and we love living here.  Neighbors, but not too close.  :-)

If you like old houses, you could Google Earth Weatherford and look around the southwest quadrant around the courthouse...not hard to find at all. There are several in the area around me that are amazing.

Thanks again!

jacon4

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2019, 06:58:21 am »
Love the house! very nice, let me see if i can post a pic of your link here.
Posting pics here is problematic no doubt, i have struggled with it as well at times. :(
click to enlarge


jacon4

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2019, 07:37:45 am »
Yes, medieval furniture is interesting, just the word MEDIEVAL has a mysterious ring to it. And wood, being perishable, there isn't a lot of this in period (12th -15th century) furniture around with most of it extant, in european museums.
A brief history:
 Gothic furniture, when compared to the other European furniture styles, is covering the longest period. The Gothic period proper lasted from the 12th to the 15th century, while its characteristic ornaments survived side by side with the new influences up to the beginning of the 17th century. The Gothic furniture style even had its own Renaissance with the Gothic revival of the 19th century.
The furniture of the Gothic period, with its characteristic contour and ornaments, derived from the Gothic Art which originated in France at the beginning of the 12th century. In its early stages, the furniture was quite simple, then it evolved towards an architectural character. The decorations were done by painting and, later, mainly carving, with tracery as principal element.
The Gothic period furniture, similar to the Gothic architecture, had local particularities, one of them being the wood used for its construction. In England, Germany, and the Low Countries it was mainly oak, in France, chestnut, in Italy and Spain walnut.
The carving had almost a geometrical character. The chief ornamentation motifs, imported from architecture, were the pointed arch, the trefoil and quatrefoil, the wheel, the rose, and the linen-fold.
Early chests were of simple, robust construction, decorated only with ornamental hinges. Initially, they were used exclusively for travel. Later in the period, as the chests grew larger and heavier, they became static, elaborately carved pieces of furniture, and main components of the Gothic interior decor.
The armoire became the main piece of the domestic Gothic interior. It was more luxurious than any other piece in residences of all classes. Variations like cupboards, cabinets, French armoires and buffets, all were in use during the Gothic period.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 08:02:47 am by jacon4 »

ghopper1924

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2019, 08:07:11 am »
Beautiful house!
"I collect antiques because they're beautiful."

-Broderick Crawford

jacon4

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #28 on: September 16, 2019, 08:50:41 am »
Beautiful house!
Yeah, is! very nice.
OK, let's get back to my fav subject, old furniture!
In the beginning (1000-1250), they had a problem, how to join the boards together to make furniture forms? wood nails or pegs had not been thought of or invented yet, the answer? IRON STRAPS!!! YES! that's it!
click to enlarge

jacon4

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Re: Identity Unknown (Furniture origin)
« Reply #29 on: September 16, 2019, 09:01:29 am »
And later, when furniture was joined with wood pegs to make "draw bore" joints as the structural element to hold the boards together, they kept right on with the Iron straps, incorporating them into the hinges & i am guessing, as a decorating element as well. Is pretty sure the iron workers went along with this 100%.
My Fav period Medieval cabinets/ click to enlarge

1. 13th century, France
2. 15th century Germany
3. Germany C 1400
4. Germany late 15th century
« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 09:16:05 am by jacon4 »