Author Topic: Victorian Lady's Hand Door Knockers - Debunking the Hand of Fatima Knocker  (Read 18531 times)

talesofthesevenseas

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Ya know, it really bugs me when I see an incorrect statement about an traditional antique get picked up and spread all over the Internet. It makes it very difficult to research an item!

I recently puchased an antique cast iron door knocker for my front door. It is a French lady's hand, holding a fruit. From what I understand, these are very common common all over Europe. France in particular seems to have the ones holding the fruit. They date from about the late 1800's on through the present day. There are a lot of reproductions made.

What I'm seeing is these clearly Victorian style repros being misrepresented as the Islamic "Hand of Fatima" door knockers. Islamic tradition forbids imitation of the creative properties of Allah, which is why Islamic art uses Arabic script and geometric design, and not representations of people, as is done in Christian art.

The Hand of Fatima looks like this:


And European door knockers look like this:


There's just no way that Victorian European Christians would have gone for Islamic door knockers in such a big way.

What I am trying to find out, is if there is any kind of story behind the traditional Europen ladie's hand knocker, or if they are simply decorative and cool-looking? It just looks like one of those kind of things that ought to have some sort of legend to it, but I sure have not been able to find one. Does anyone know? Please correct me if I am off-base with anything above too!
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 11:18:42 am by talesofthesevenseas »
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it should be stated they represent Fatima  Zahara prophet too Mohammed. regard less they ward off the Evil Eye.  I could use that.

KC

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I have always heard that they were just decorative.....one had to outdo the Jones living next door!

I have loved this site and it has lots of the hand with cuff door knockers
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/440005801zmToNe?start=24
I'm from the South - but please don't mistake my Southern Manners/Accent/Charm as a weakness!

talesofthesevenseas

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Oh that's a good Web site! I haven't seen so many photographs of hand door knockers all in one place. It is interesting to see the little differences when they are side-by-side.

When I started looking for a knocker, it was fun seeing all the old figural door knockers that out there. It is interesting that figural knockers kind of went out of style along with architectural "gingerbread" on houses. Society's loss I say!
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KC

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Glad you enjoyed the site.  I think it is so interesting and try to imagine the homes they were on...the people that were inspired to place them on their homes.....
I'm from the South - but please don't mistake my Southern Manners/Accent/Charm as a weakness!

regularjoe2

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Considering all the nasty threads that got posted here yesterday , I was reluctant to see this one ;
I do like hardware quite a bit , so thanks for the thread .

I was afraid it was going to be one of those "show us your knockers" threads .





i know ...bad man ....again ....

KC

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regularjoe2....made me laugh!

Yeah yesterday was a rough one but thanks to the wonderful/fabulous/stupendous/efficient/conscientious/super-human monitors those were removed quickly!
(did I over do it?)
I'm from the South - but please don't mistake my Southern Manners/Accent/Charm as a weakness!

D&b antiques

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No you' didnt a big on line thank's to our on line moderator that volunteers his time to keep it clean. Railman

talesofthesevenseas

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LOL you know I was tempted to title the post something like "Check out my knockers" but decided against it!

The knocker just arrived in the mail this morning and it has a couple of hallmarks, on both the palm of the hand and on the rectangular base piece. The hallmarks are the same and appear on both pieces. One mark says "10c" and the other is an anchor, with a letter "C" on the left side and a letter "F" on the right. Pardon the poor photo quality, these are the Ebay photos. I'll take better ones. "10c" is on the left side of the palm, written vertically from top to bottom. "Anchor CF" is written horizontally on the right side of the palm. It's been painted copper color in recent years, I'll probably remove that. Looks like only one layer of paint, which is good.





I did a bit of hunting for the hallmark this morning, and I did find  the "CF Anchor" hallmark on a French sad iron, which was dated 1850 to 1900. You can see the hallmark more clearly on this iron:

http://www.prices4antiques.com/kitchen-household/sad-irons-laundry/Sad-Iron-French-Spade-Shape-Anchor-CF-Mark-No-2-4-inch--D9762819.htm
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we have worked hard to get the volunteers, we have here. bantering jokeing post high jacking is expected & may be graded for qualilty & content.

It was the porno. that was wrecking the site. Railman has done a great job keeping it clean.

talesofthesevenseas

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I'm not having much luck finding information on iron foundry hallmarks. I did find this information on a site for antique copper:

'L C ' and fouled anchor mark found on a copper coffee pot and similar items.  The anchor is said to represent the French Naval Medical service but the mark appears on many items for the domestic market.

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talesofthesevenseas

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Well this was a surprise- I used a gentle stripping agent to remove the modern copper paint tonight. I've got a little more to go, I'm still getting the last of it out of the crevices. There are lots of details coming out that I couldn't see before.

I was surprised to find that despite the fact that the knocker and the backplate have the same identical hallmarks, they are two different metals! The backplate is definitely cast iron, but the hand appears to be bronze. I am liking how it looks, now that the original surface is coming out from under the paint.

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KC

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Wow nice piece (behave regularjoe).

Interesting that it is of 2 different metals.  I imagine the larger was more $$$$ and to cut costs cast iron was used.  Guess even the Jones' saved a few pennies!
I'm from the South - but please don't mistake my Southern Manners/Accent/Charm as a weakness!

regularjoe2

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Looks nicer , since you cleaned it up , talesof .

Are you going to let it 'patina-up' now ?

talesofthesevenseas

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Thanks guys. Yes, I'm going to let it do its thing, the way its supposed to. I'll check if I should treat it with anything first to protect it.
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