Do you think these are genuine?

[ayashe]

Hello everyone, I bought these separately about 5 years ago off eBay. The stone cross is meant to be Byzantine and the ring Roman-Saxon, I believe (from memory). I was hoping someone could shed some light on this and tell me if they are genuine? I bought them on a whim (LOL) and since have wondered if I was "had" or if they might be the real thing.  Also, I am less interested in their value but if anyone has any guesses I wouldn't mind knowing what you might think they could be worth. They're both very heavy; the cross feels like stone and the ring is obviously a heavy metal. The ring also has a crack in the band, as shown in the photos. I have put the coin in the photos to help with size comparison. After I bought them I learned it's very naughty to buy these items since most of the time, if they're genuine, they've been stolen from archaeological digs! Thanks everyone! 

[KC]

My first thought when I saw the ring was that it has been cut off!  The "style" does appear to be old...but I wouldn't go to the bank on it from being from the

My other thought is if they're are in fact from that 1,000 year period (Byzantine) (even if stolen) they wouldn't be sold on EBay.  There are lots of private collectors out there that will get these items, one way or another, and are willing to pay the prices. 

However, stranger things have happened....

[luxetveritas]

D&b could very well be correct, however, before I got in to antiques again, I was collecting antiquities. There are genuine sellers of Byzantium and other cultural artifacts on eBay, even Egyptian. Most are not genuine, but I know some collectors who go on private "digs" meaning medaldetecting in south-eastern Europe and it is not uncommon for them to find loads of this stuff. If you have the name of the seller I could take a look for you. Also, seeing as I am def. no specialist, check out the antiquities forum on Yahoo Groups. They are devoted to catching sellers of fakes on eBay.

[ayashe]

Hmm, well I've done a search for the seller in my feedback and on eBay and he's completely gone! Even the feedback he left me is gone, I didn't know that was possible. Usually the feedback will stay and eBay will type unregistered user underneath. Unless he's changed his name? Oh well. I remember his name was something like 'fn7'... which I thought sounded bizarrely like a shortened swearword with 7 at the end. Anyway, he had lots of coins and other small items like jewelery, etc. I guess I've learned my lesson! I think I paid $15-$20 each for them so no huge loss. Thanks both of you for your help. 

[talesofthesevenseas]

Remember that it didn't used to be illegal to export antiquities from their home countries. In the 18th and 19th centuries, thousands upon thousands of artifacts came to the US legally as tourist souveniers. What came here legally then, is still legal to own, although morally, yeah there may be a guilt factor, and some artifact owners do eventually return their artifacts to the countries of origin.

Look at your ring for signs of finger wear on the band, it may be thinner where a human finger would bend around the ring. However if it was grave goods, it would have virtually no wear, since they weren't worn during life in most cases, but may have corrosion from embalming, depending on where it is from. Yours looks like it was worn and was not a grave item.

Most bronze rings are pretty cheap and faking one isn't worth the effort for a small profit. From the photo, yours looks like it has genuine wear and patina. The style is very similar to a lot of ancient bronze rings. I'm not an expert, but an enthusiast, with a small collection of ancient Egyptian and Roman artifacts. I can't say much about the cross, although a lot of the Coptic crosses look similar, and I couldn't say if the ring has a floral design or a cross. It would depend on where it came from and if the seller has disappeared, it is hard to say if what he said was true or not.

[ayashe]

Thanks for your imput... I've always thought it was a crooked flower on the ring, lol! I am glad to hear you possibly see a cross, I hadn't thought of that. It is very smooth and comfortable to wear, though I don't see the band any thinner from use. I must admit my heart skipped a beat when you mentioned grave goods, and corrosion from embalming  ... but that would be exciting too! Thanks for your insight, I think I will leave it to the unknown for now though in my heart I think the ring is genuinely something not new!

[talesofthesevenseas]

I would bet its a flower on the ring and would agree that it's ancient, but again, I'm not an expert at all. But it has the same looks as the ones I have, particularly those tiny horizontal fractures on the band where it is thin, not the one that goes through, but the others. I've seen that on a lot of the ancient rings where the metal is thin. Cool ring! Isn't it neat wondering where it has been and who wore it all those years ago?!

[luxetveritas]

I agree with Tales regarding the age. Rings like the ones you have are fairly common and thousands upon thousands can be found within a square mile at a good site. From the pictures it is really hard to tell if they are genuine, but they could be on further reflection! The ring looks like a Byzantine ring to me. 

[ayashe]

Yes, I'm amazed how common they are! I agree with you luxetveritas (now that I've been able to find photos of other rings) that it's Byzantine design.

talesofthesevenseas, do you ever polish any of your rings? Or do you leave them blacky-green? I'm not going to try and polish mine (too scared... and don't mind the colour) but was wondering if you'd given it a go?

Thanks everyone for your help!

[talesofthesevenseas]

My understanding is that leaving them unpolished with their patina intact is always best. That when you remove the patina, you remove some of its history. But if you have one that is wearable, since the rings are not particularly high-value or historically significant, I guess that comes down to personal choice. I have some that I bought already polished that are quite wearable and interesting. I think with the severe fracture in the band, wearing the ring would not be a good idea. But the cross looks quite wearable.

I think there's a certain mindset for appreciating the beauty the patina itself and what it represents, and weighing it against what we're used to seeing as beauty- things sparkly and shiney. Although this is how the person who owned it appreciated it too, so you kind of have to weigh all of that and make a decision.

[regularjoe2]

While visiting the site of the city of Troy (in the early 1970's) , I was sitting on the bank of a small archeological 'trial trench' smoking a cig & taking in the whole scene .
As I was swinging my heels & knocking off a little dirt from the trench (not on purpose , I swear!) , I uncovered 5 small bronze coins .

Later on in the day , I got in touch with one of the 'guides' at the site & gave him 4 coins , told him where I found them , etc.
He told me he'd give them to the Archeologist(s) working the dig .

The next day I found out he'd sold them to a tourist .

I'm a bad man , because I kept one .

[luxetveritas]

No doubt he would sell them, a LOT of artifacts are stolen every day from sites like that. That's a really cool find though!! Especially from a site like Troy, awesome! I actually hadn't realized a lot of excavation was still going on around the site. Cool, I really, really, really want to visit Turkey, especially for a dig!

[talesofthesevenseas]

I think we need to start a topic for sharing vacation photos of the historic places we have gone to! It sounds like there are some killer photos and stories out there!

Ayashe, I think ancient and antique jewelry pieces are awesome. I don't even buy modern jewelry anymore. I've never had any interest in stuff like modern diamonds or gold, but show me an ancient, corroded bronze ring and I'm drooling! Go figure!!

It's fun because people always ask me about the jewelry I wear because it is different from what they usually see. The cross is neat because you could get so many different looks with it- On a black choker it would look Goth, on a simple chain it would look striking and ancient. It would look awesome as the only piece of jewelry with a black evening dress. Cleaned or uncleaned, I think it will look great! What's cool about these ancient pieces is that they are still so wearable and affordable, and you know you have the only one like it in the world! What can be better than that?

[D&b antiques]

yes they are affordable. I would certainly wear them.

[ayashe]

Yes, I prefer ancient (or at least antique) jewelery as well. I used to wear the stone cross combined with another cross I have on a chain, and I have a few pieces of old pottery framed in silver that I wear, along with antique earrings, rings, etc. I like to keep things in their original condition, so agree with you on leaving the patina. I found a nice site that sells polished rings and artifacts tho. It's pretty cool. I found it after I posted my question :

http://www.thehonourablecompany.com/store/index.php

And I have never been to this place, but since you mentioned posting pics of where we have been... i WANNA go here... y'all might think I'm a bit strange now...! 

http://www.ludd.luth.se/~silver_p/kutna-1.html