"Offert par la Cour St Georges a Gand" 1228 plate

[darkstar300]

We found this plate stored in some old family boxes from the attic. Our family roots come from Poland so we think the artifact has come somewhere from the surrounding countries in Europe.
A few facts we have derived:
*The date on the plate is from 1228.
*It is made of a heavy metal.
*We believe that the front of the plate is a episode of St. George and the Dragon, a myth brought up by the Holy Crusaders
* The back of the plate is inscribed "Offert par la Cour St Georges a Gand"
*On the back there is also a signature (the ones normally found on silver), signature is hard to read, says "G Metten"

link for pics
http://i25.tinypic.com/2zhfic3.jpg
http://i25.tinypic.com/5dnt5l.jpg

Could anyone provide us some more information about this and maybe derive a money value for it.

[ayashe]

Hello, darkstar300. Is it possible to post more photos showing the size of the plate, and its surrounding edges? Are there any touchmarks on it? I am not an expert at all, but I think this has been made at a later date. I think you are right about it depicting St. George and the Dragon. The story is based from the beginning on pagan origins, then came to Europe and was "canonized" after the first crusades in the Middle East. There were several other crusades; the 6th was 1228-1229. I don't know if this has anything to do with your plate, but I'm not sure if it is from that period. More investigation I'm sure will reveal more. 

[luxetveritas]

Your plate was made at a later date most certainly. Often pieces were dates, like "1852" or something like that- but aren't, in most cases, actually from that date. This probably just refers to the time period depicted on the plate/date of the significant event on the plate.

From the pictures I can't tell what type of metal, but it looks either silver or a nicer pewter. If it is pewter the very latest it could date is the 15th century- which it doesn't. Silver articles date all the way back to ancient times, but I assure you the plate is not even close to that age. Sorry

[regularjoe2]

At first glance , it looks like a cast-metal item .
Perhaps an 'offering' or 'collection' ($) plate .

I'd like to see more images too , if possible .

[regularjoe2]

New & revised gold-star guess ...

I think it's probably a tip-plate , swiped from :

Hotel Cour St. George
Botermarkt 2
9000 Gand (Ghent)
Belgium

[ayashe]

I found this image in a Pewter book. It refers to the style as "French Antique Punched Work" but the book doesn't really give a date for this style.

I would say that yours is inspired by this type of French pewter but wouldn't be from that period. The french translates as: "Offered by the court St Georges of Ghent" so I would be inclined to agree that it comes from where regularjoe2 suggested in Belgium. Perhaps it is a souvenir? Maybe their mascot is St. George and the Dragon? It's possible it could be made of spelter if it's not pewter or cast-metal.

[KC]

When I was in my teens I went by a sale outside some folk's home that were selling out of need.   I bought 5 plates that were pewter (didn't know it at the time) shaped exactly like these.  Was disappointed they weren't silver and put them away...later giving to Good Will when I was getting married.  Boy, I have kicked myself ever since.  These were 19thC and were of ships and wars.  One of the reasons I started learning what things are so I don't make any more super dumb mistakes like that again!  (Not that Good Will is a dumb thing....it is a good one - just giving those particulars to them was a dumb thing).

[D&b antiques]

I can add to that. 3o + plus years. I gave away a North wood carnival glass pitcher.

[darkstar300]

Here is another picture, gives more detail of the shape.

So here is what we know about it:
* It depicts St. George and the Dragon
* Its either made from pewter, spelter, or silver, (it kind of looks like lead)
* The plate is small, much of the size of a tipping plate.
* The style is similar to French Antique Punched Work
*  The french translates as: "Offered by the court St Georges of Ghent"

I will try and upload more pictures, don't have the plate right now with me.

[KC]

In the early times pewter was made with a high content of lead!

[darkstar300]

I am very confident now that it is indeed a French pewter plate. I couldn't find plates with St. George and the Dragon, mostly ones with battle ships. What do you think this one may be worth around..

[cogar]

In the early times pewter was made with a high content of lead!

That reminds me of a story I was once told long ago.

That in the early times many of the grave markers in cemeteries were quite large and made of pewter but they are quite rare to be found now days. The reason being, they were melted down to make bullets during the War.

[ayashe]

I'm not so sure that it's an antique French pewter plate... the detail just isn't there. if I were to take a shot in the dark, I'd say it's from the 1930's even. It's obviously stamped by machine, the 'pocks' effect behind the image of the shield is what makes me think it's from around that era, maybe even '20's. Also, the image is off-centre, it's not quite in the middle. If it were an antique pewter, more care would've been taken in assuring it was good quality and centered, especially if it was intended as a religious piece, which were often mixed with real gold and silver as they had to be of the highest quality to be used in the church. I am still inclined to believe it's inspired by the antique French punched pewter and isn't genuine. But we will never know it's value unless we find another one like it to compare it to. It's only worth what someone's willing to pay for it.  Can you post a photo of the signature or any touchmarks? If you can find some touchmarks, that would tell a lot.

[KC]

Post a picture of the back!

I agree with ayashe that this looks to be machine stamped and from the early 1900's.  And agree if it was handmade it would be less likely to be off center when everything else looks to be in "good order".

[luxetveritas]

Good observation on the punching, Ayashe! I didn't even think about that. Kudos on that post too, I found it quite informative- and I definitely agree with you about the care taken if it were to have been hand carved or a religious object.