German Desk Set

[kehbe]

I was hoping someone would be able to tell me a bit more about this set I aquired recently. The only marking I can find on any of it is the German patent/protection mark "geschutzt". Also on the bottom of the paperweight is a paper tag stating "Old Bronze ____ Set, 1880, ink__l, opener, blot___, paperweight, pair candlesticks. I acquired it from my ex-mother-in-law. She came to U.S. during WWII from Switzerland. The peices are adorned with grapes and cherubs, or "putti". The blotter has what appears to be blue paper or felt on the bottom of it. I don't know if it is original or not. It seems to be. Thanks for taking a look at this and thanks in advance to anyone who may be able to shed any light on the origins or maker/history or value of these items!


Posted by Kyle B
Labels: candlestick, desk set, inkwell, letter opener, paperweight

[regularjoe2]

Very nice desk set , kehbe !

If I were in your sneakers , I'd take out my fine-toothed comb ( & magnifier ) and fully examine all pieces in the set , looking for signatures and any makers' marks/serial #'s etc .

Having knowledge of such marks will greatly aid in researching your items here & anywhere else , for that matter .

[railman44]

Do you have any idea of the kind of metal?

[KC]

What is the inner lining of the inkwell made of?  Glass?  Porcelain?  Plastic?   Enameled metal?  That will help determine this as well.

[kehbe]

Do you have any idea of the kind of metal?

As for material, I can only base my assumption on the paper tag that is 'taped' to the bottom of the paper weight (The tape is an indicator of when it was labeled eh?) and my jewelery making experience, I would say the metal is bronze. It seems VERY heavy for it's size.

 

[kehbe]

What is the inner lining of the inkwell made of?  Glass?  Porcelain?  Plastic?   Enameled metal?  That will help determine this as well.

The lining of the inkwell is porcelain and is removable. It sets inside the casting with a good fit. I have found no markings on the porcelain well itself. It looks as though there was "possibly" a marking on the bottom of it at one time but is not discernible now. I will post more close-ups if it would help to identify it.

[kehbe]

Very nice desk set , kehbe !

If I were in your sneakers , I'd take out my fine-toothed comb ( & magnifier ) and fully examine all pieces in the set , looking for signatures and any makers' marks/serial #'s etc .

Having knowledge of such marks will greatly aid in researching your items here & anywhere else , for that matter .

Thanks RG2, I have looked them over pretty good and spent two days searching the web for "desk sets", "German castings", inkwells and every other combination of words I could think of that might get me some results that were informative. I have found many other sets but none that look like this one or that would give me some 'clue'. Also, I would like to thank ALL who have responded with suggestions and advice. I'm new here but I am an avid collector of, well, everything to be quite honest. Antique or otherwise... just ask my wife! My garage and my attic are full of my "treasures"!

[KC]

So, we know that the note was put on after 1930 since that is when cellophane tape (aka pressure sensitive tape, Scotch Tape) invented....still have more to look into....

By-the-way....love the looks of the set!  Very nice.

[regularjoe2]

So , kehbe , am I correct in assuming that you've not removed the paper & tape tag to check for makers marks ? ... also , does the blotter have a slider or similar 'locking/release' device (for replacing blotter material - one more covert place to check for marks ) ?

I'm also curious to know if your set is solid-cast through & through , or if elements have been soldered/braised/welded onto each other .
I can't tell for sure from the posted images , but it sorta looks like non-solid ( one piece) cast to this old mans' semi-blind eyes .

Thanks for all your feedback & on-going input about your desk set .

[KC]

Could you post some pics of the undersides?  Looking for marks, screws, etc.

[kehbe]

So , kehbe , am I correct in assuming that you've not removed the paper & tape tag to check for makers marks ? ... also , does the blotter have a slider or similar 'locking/release' device (for replacing blotter material - one more covert place to check for marks ) ?

I'm also curious to know if your set is solid-cast through & through , or if elements have been soldered/braised/welded onto each other .
I can't tell for sure from the posted images , but it sorta looks like non-solid ( one piece) cast to this old mans' semi-blind eyes .

Thanks for all your feedback & on-going input about your desk set .

RJ2 and KC,

 I have not removed the paper tag. I wasn't sure if I should or not. Also, there are various parts that are screwed on and I am attaching some pics to this email showing these areas. In short, it is NOT one solid cast piece.
The candlesticks come apart in 5 different pieces. The inkwell comes apart in 3 pieces, not counting the porcelain well itself.  The blotter comes apart by unscrewing the cherub from the top and the paper on the blotter was obviously replaced at a later date. I have included a photo of it as well.

[kehbe]

[KC]

Definition: Geschutzt is a mark sometimes found on antiques of German origin which translates to protected or copyrighted; similar in meaning to the U.S. patented and pat. pend. marks.  Geschutzt is also associated with Austrian bronzes of many types.

[ironlord1963]

     I've been hovering hard over this thread, Not because I know enough, More hoping to hear a value.   I have look from time to time at antique Desk  sets, If I find a good one my lady friend will be really happy.  .   What I do know is that these sets are really hard to find, and this one has candleholders.   Wow, just look around and you will see they are very expensive.  Bronze ones seem a bit less common.   It seems we have established the german area, the label dates it to the 1880's.  It does seem to be period and they really feel out of favor in the early 1900's.  I wonder if the word "copyright" has any proof or disproof to the date.   The screw on the back of the cherb looks old but also has a machine look to it.   However I will say that I could believe the label.   The only real thing we lack is maker and value.   Wish I could help on the maker, but I will go out on a limb and say that if truly period $1,500.00 to $2,000.00, mostly because it is complete and look victorian, and lots of rich collectors and Interior decorators who would drool over something like this.  I did see one go for 1,000.00 at a Auction in a box and was not near as nice and no Candleholders.  I think you have a real treasure there    

[regularjoe2]

Wow , kehbe , thanks for all the new images & disassembly & such .

I've bought & sold a few dozen desk sets through the years and 3 of them had 'messages' from the owners underneath the blotter pad ( this is one of the reasons I asked if yours was replaceable) .
Perhaps one owner (previous) was the fella whose name (Max Bernstein) was printed on that paper ....

Now that I see you've taken the pieces apart , I'm really curious to know the thread pitch on any of the threaded pieces , if you're familiar with what I mean ... it's just one more clue-type thing .

I'm plugging away , seeing if I can find something concrete on your nice desk set .
We'll see what the next few days bring .