Chinese Panel ?

[sapphire]

I'm so glad I found this forum.  I had been searching for information on what I believe to be a Chinese silk panel I just purchased.......jus t happened across it at a thrift shop and fell in love with it.  The only informative link I could find was to a piece being sold on Ebay that was similar in color and some of the designs.  Of course mine is not in the excellent shape as the one being sold. That one is said to be from the 1800's.

The panel is 39" square, the material that makes up the border appears to have a metallic thread.  After seeing mentions in threads on this forum regarding 'marks', I checked the back and was surprised to notice one that I had previously overlooked.

Could anyone give me any information or an educated guess as to age and value?  Also advice on how to best treat and preserve this piece?

Thanks in advance for any help or comments.





I can take more pics to show the detail better if needed.  Tks.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Welcome to the forum!

Can you show an upclose on the center? Also can you describe the construction, if the designs in the silk are printed, painted or embroidered?

As far as preservation, it depends on what you want to do with it, just keeping it safe, or displaying it. To keep it, a nice dry, dark drawer or cupboard is great. Light is the enemy of textiles! Make sure it is not touching any wood or paper, they are acidic. roll it loosely, rather than folding it.

If you want to display it, a good UV filter shadowbox is good, but they cost a small fortune. (I have a Chinese cloud collar I'm putting in one when I can afford it!) If yours is flat, you might not need a shadowbox, just a frame larger than the piece, with UV filter Plexiglass. Make sure the backing is acid free, you can also put it on cotton cloth covered backing with cotton under it if it needs a "cushion". Make sure it's not touching the frame and make sure that the frame is not air-tight, it needs to be able to "breathe" so that moisture is not trapped in with the fabric. If the fabric is extremely dry, it can also be rehydrated, or cleaned, but if it is fragile, this kind of thing is best done by a pro.

[sapphire]

Thanks for your reply Tales.  The fabric is quite fragile, showing near threadbare where it has likely been folded for some time. Along part of one side where the border meets the center panel the silk has separated, but still lays in place when flat.  It is backed with what appears to be cotton, the printed material which bears the mark above. The designs are all embroidered.

Here are some close ups.  Sorry if some are not clear, batteries were dying ....... just enough juice to download.
















Sorry if those are too large.

[KC]

Nice pics!  Great embroidery Piece!!!!!!!!!!

Like Talesof said....what are you wanting to do with it.....store it or display it?

[fancypants]

nice large panel,sapphire.

my initial guess on age is first half of 20th century,maybe 20's-30's.

would like to see a clearer photo of sig/fabric backing,if possible.

2 questions -is the gold stitching on the main body of the border(s) exactly the same as in the center (around the figures) ;
is the bias tape/fabric around the border fabric silk (if you can tell)?

[sapphire]

I had planned to display it.  I really had no idea exactly what I had picked up, other than I loved the look of it......two other ladies were hovering over my shoulder when I spotted it.  As I unfolded it to take a look they asked if I was going to buy it. They weren't too impressed when I said I was. It wasn't until I got back home to my son's that I could actually lay it out and get a much better look at the amount of detail.  That's when my curiosity set in and I tried to find out a bit more about the piece.

I'm concerned I won't be able to afford to have a professional do the work. But I will check around and see if it can be done here and if I can get a price.  It would be a shame to pack it away rather than enjoy the beauty of it, but I also don't want to do any more damage to it.  My first thought when finding it was that if it could somehow be cleaned it would be stunning.......but now I don't know if that could be done safely.


fancypants, now that it's daylight (and my batteries have recharged) I'll be able to get some better shots.  I'll check the border to see if I can tell what it might be.

[KC]

I would not recommend that you get it cleaned just any 'ole place.

Call a local museum and explain that you have a very old Chinese tapestry that you are interested in getting cleaned and ask for a recommendation.  They are your best bet.

However, many people do not get them cleaned unless there is apparent soiling on it.

Do believe it is chinese.  sending pic to friend for further info.

[sapphire]

fancypants, the bias/trim appears by look and feel to be silk.  Also, it is fraying in the same manner as some areas of the center panel.  The gold 'stitching' has me even more curious. I was able to look 'inside' through the tear and don't know if I'm seeing a separate piece/type of material or a backing on the silk with the gold being some sort of cording that has been stitched to the silk.  It is the same on both border and centerpiece. I tried to get a clearer pic of the signature.  Took it as close as possible, then fiddled with the clarity on my computer. 

As for cleaning, I would only get it done by someone familiar with the process and only if it was something I could afford.  The marks are noticeable, but not disfiguring. It's just a shame that the full beauty can't shine through as is.

Here are some clearer shots taken in daylight.  I apologize for the picture overload.

[KC]

Definitely not kesi (form of Chinese tapestry developed in the Tang Dynasty 618 - 920).

Definitely woven back ground with interwoven threads.  Will wait to see what friend says.

[sapphire]

This is actually getting very exciting. Even though it may not be a 'treasure find', I certainly got my $5 worth and more just in the fun of learning more about it! 

[talesofthesevenseas]

What a great thrift store find! Nowadays most thrift stores comb through their stuff for antiques and put them up on their Web site. I'm surprised this one slipped by! Way to go! Keep your eye on that store!   Definitely would be great to put it on display in a nice acid-free backed, UV filter Plex frame! Check out a framing store, or even a good craft store with a framing department. They should be able to help you do it for not too terribly much since it is flat.

I think, especially with the black/white make-up, that your characters in the center are Chinese opera characters, but a person who knows more than I do should confirm that.

[talesofthesevenseas]

Did you say $5 bucks?!!!  Sweeeeeeeeet!!!

[sapphire]

Yuppers, $5    It's a little shop I came across when visiting my kids on the other side of Canada.  It's run by/for a local church.  They just price whatever comes in according to it's use. Also, it's centered in an area populated by a great number of older Chinese families. Now I wish I had taken the time to look through their oriental collectibles on the shelves behind the cash counter......only there because the store is jammed to the hilt and the bookcase on the back wall was convenient.  I had fun there last year picking up odds and ends, and clothes of course.  Just came home a few days ago from another trip (and planned visit to my favourite shop). Won't have the chance again till next year. 

Tales, with the panel being the size it is, I'll definitely have to get a frame custom made.  You mentioned a cloth covered backing.  What type of cloth would you suggest?  I have a couple of 60-70 yr old linen tablecloths (white/ivory) that are no longer in use, would the material be suitable/safe or is there something I should look for?  I would like to be able to show the entire panel with possibly a border of color, but don't want to use anything that could possibly damage it further.

I also want to say thank you to all, for the help and advice.

[sapphire]

I forgot to ask, what is a Plex frame??

[talesofthesevenseas]

Sorry for abbreviating, "Plex" is short for Plexiglass, the trade name for the plastic used instead of glass. Plexiglass is good because not only can you get it in UV filter so that light won't damage it, but the Plexiglass won't shatter and rip it if it gets knocked off the wall. (I live in earthquake country!)

Here are some sites that have information on preserving textiles:

http://www.kshs.org/preserve/heirlooms/textiles.htm

http://www.preservation.gc.ca/howto/articles/textiles_e.asp

http://www.needleart.org/NANthology/06winterbook.php

Additionally, when I got my Chinese cloud collar, I contacted Alden O'Brien, who is a conservator with the DAR Museum in Washington DC. I got to know her because my Rev War ancestor's wedding dress is there and last year I donated the same ancestor's shawl to the museum. This recommendation on hydrating textiles comes from her:

"[If the fabric is] so brittle that it will tear or shred it to do so. (in which case the first thing is to re-hydrate it a bit which involves letting it sit next to a bowl of distilled water, in a plastic bag, so the water gently slowly evaporates and it is gently slowly absorbed by the dry fibers—not a bad thing to do in any case.) A few stitches done once is better than constant pressure of the plexi, I feel."

I hope this is helpful! Man... I would love to go to that store! Lux is gonna drool when he hears about it!